1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,459 Hi, everybody, welcome to Def Con 21. 2 00:00:03,459 --> 00:00:04,459 Yeah! 3 00:00:04,459 --> 00:00:10,999 I have already lost my voice. 4 00:00:10,999 --> 00:00:11,999 Who else? 5 00:00:11,999 --> 00:00:12,999 Anybody? 6 00:00:12,999 --> 00:00:15,876 So we wanted to have an opening speaker this morning that 7 00:00:15,876 --> 00:00:20,876 feel like they can handle the heat of the moment going on out there. 8 00:00:20,876 --> 00:00:23,918 We invited a former fed up here. 9 00:00:23,918 --> 00:00:25,959 He is used to dealing with North Korea special envoy 10 00:00:25,959 --> 00:00:30,000 for the United States so I think he can deal with the heat. 11 00:00:31,999 --> 00:00:35,417 Also Ambassador Joseph DeTrani was recently director 12 00:00:35,417 --> 00:00:38,999 of nuclear non proliferation for the United States and 13 00:00:38,999 --> 00:00:41,959 he is now president of INSA. 14 00:00:42,250 --> 00:00:44,999 So I think it's really interesting to hear him talk today 15 00:00:44,999 --> 00:00:49,542 about the convergence we are seeing between cyber and nuclear. 16 00:00:49,626 --> 00:00:51,209 So with that everybody give Ambassador 17 00:00:51,209 --> 00:00:53,042 a warm welcome. 18 00:00:53,042 --> 00:00:55,000 (Applause). 19 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,375 AMBASSADOR JOSEPH DETRANI: Thank you. 20 00:01:00,751 --> 00:01:02,209 It's an honor being here. 21 00:01:02,667 --> 00:01:07,959 I have to be very honest, it's a bit intimidating to be here. 22 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:09,667 I'm impressed with all of the work you do, 23 00:01:09,667 --> 00:01:12,999 and I met some of your colleagues yesterday. 24 00:01:12,999 --> 00:01:13,959 Nico was nice enough to take me around, and 25 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,709 the work you do is very, very impressive. 26 00:01:16,709 --> 00:01:21,292 I 've spent ten years working weapons of mass destruction issues a lot 27 00:01:21,292 --> 00:01:25,542 in North Korea, but a number of other countries we look 28 00:01:25,542 --> 00:01:31,501 at weapons of mass destruction, nuclear what was that, I'm sorry? 29 00:01:31,501 --> 00:01:33,083 Nuclear, bio and chemical. 30 00:01:33,083 --> 00:01:35,501 I thought today maybe I could talk a little about that and sort 31 00:01:35,501 --> 00:01:38,125 of weave that into some of the work you are doing where you 32 00:01:38,125 --> 00:01:41,334 have the expertise, and that's the cyber domain. 33 00:01:41,501 --> 00:01:45,542 So please, bear with me, and then maybe we could open it 34 00:01:45,542 --> 00:01:49,459 up for discussion or some questions. 35 00:01:49,667 --> 00:01:51,626 And I'll be telling you a lot of what you know, 36 00:01:51,626 --> 00:01:55,083 but let me start talking about weapons of mass destruction. 37 00:01:55,250 --> 00:02:00,959 And I will preview that by giving you my sense that cyber 38 00:02:00,959 --> 00:02:07,626 is a major national security threat to this country, to our citizens, 39 00:02:07,626 --> 00:02:10,209 to our companies. 40 00:02:10,209 --> 00:02:13,999 It's a threat that's growing in scope with direct impact to the economic, 41 00:02:13,999 --> 00:02:17,918 domestic and defense interests of this nation. 42 00:02:17,999 --> 00:02:22,083 Hactivists with politically or socially motivated agenda, 43 00:02:22,083 --> 00:02:25,876 to criminals to state and non state actors who view 44 00:02:25,876 --> 00:02:30,375 cyber intrusions and attacks as a means of economic advancement, 45 00:02:30,375 --> 00:02:34,999 and we see a lot of that, through theft of intellectual property 46 00:02:34,999 --> 00:02:39,125 and we have been reading a lot about that, or espionage or 47 00:02:39,125 --> 00:02:42,584 in the most extreme case as a potential weapons 48 00:02:42,584 --> 00:02:44,999 of mass destruction. 49 00:02:45,501 --> 00:02:49,334 The cyber domain shows some of the same issues I've addressed 50 00:02:49,334 --> 00:02:54,125 in my many years working weapons of mass destruction issues. 51 00:02:54,209 --> 00:02:57,792 Let me talk a little bit about weapons of mass destruction. 52 00:02:57,999 --> 00:03:00,083 The non proliferation treaty, NPT and 53 00:03:00,083 --> 00:03:03,959 the International Atomic Energy Agency were established 54 00:03:03,959 --> 00:03:07,751 to address nuclear issues with significant international 55 00:03:07,751 --> 00:03:12,334 membership that interestingly and unfortunately doesn't include four 56 00:03:12,334 --> 00:03:17,209 of the nine nuclear weapons states as members of the NPT. 57 00:03:18,876 --> 00:03:22,959 The reality is that the number of nuclear weapon states could 58 00:03:22,959 --> 00:03:25,959 increase significantly if North Korea retains 59 00:03:25,959 --> 00:03:29,542 and enhances nuclear weapon capabilities and Iran pulls 60 00:03:29,542 --> 00:03:33,876 the trigger and manufactures nuclear weapons which they could do 61 00:03:33,876 --> 00:03:36,918 in a few months once the Supreme Leader Amini, 62 00:03:36,918 --> 00:03:41,417 makes this decision which some say is inevitable despite the election 63 00:03:41,417 --> 00:03:44,501 of Rohani as the new president. 64 00:03:45,751 --> 00:03:49,792 These two events in my view, in my view, will insight 65 00:03:49,792 --> 00:03:54,209 an international nuclear arms race with countries like Japan 66 00:03:54,209 --> 00:03:57,792 and South Korea in East Asia and Saudi, Turkey 67 00:03:57,792 --> 00:04:01,999 in the Middle East each seeking to attain their nuclear 68 00:04:01,999 --> 00:04:04,292 weapons capability. 69 00:04:04,792 --> 00:04:08,459 This is the nuclear threat the international community confronts 70 00:04:08,459 --> 00:04:12,751 today in addition to the real threat, and I emphasize new threat 71 00:04:12,751 --> 00:04:15,083 of nuclear terrorism. 72 00:04:15,083 --> 00:04:17,999 Non state actors getting their hands on nuclear devices, 73 00:04:17,999 --> 00:04:20,501 which we know they want. 74 00:04:21,209 --> 00:04:27,083 That's why these organizations the non proliferation, IAEA, 75 00:04:27,083 --> 00:04:32,876 the International Atomic Agency, the monitorings of these 76 00:04:32,876 --> 00:04:38,709 at Iran's nuclear sites do such outstanding work. 77 00:04:40,834 --> 00:04:45,083 North Korea pulled out of the NPT and they did that in 2013, 78 00:04:45,083 --> 00:04:49,918 thus there are no IAEA inspectors looking at North Korea, looking 79 00:04:49,918 --> 00:04:55,959 at their facility and any other undeclared facilities in North Korea. 80 00:04:56,125 --> 00:04:58,125 Membership in the NPT and compliance 81 00:04:58,125 --> 00:05:01,334 with the IAEA safeguards helps to insure that 82 00:05:01,334 --> 00:05:05,501 a nuclear arms race does not materialize and that countries 83 00:05:05,501 --> 00:05:09,626 like North Korea dismantles nuclear weapons. 84 00:05:11,834 --> 00:05:14,959 As chairman promised and Iran renounces the pursuit 85 00:05:14,959 --> 00:05:18,167 of nuclear weapons and overtly pursues the peaceful use 86 00:05:18,167 --> 00:05:22,542 of nuclear energy while also insuring that those other nuclear weapons 87 00:05:22,542 --> 00:05:26,542 states work hard to insure the security of their nuclear weapons, 88 00:05:26,542 --> 00:05:28,876 the security of their nuclear weapons 89 00:05:28,876 --> 00:05:33,999 because I mentioned nuclear terrorism, and eventually join the U.S. 90 00:05:33,999 --> 00:05:37,667 in its goal in a world with no nuclear weapons. 91 00:05:37,999 --> 00:05:39,999 The president has made that clear, the objective, and 92 00:05:39,999 --> 00:05:42,834 he said most likely not in his lifetime. 93 00:05:43,999 --> 00:05:47,834 Unfortunately there are no international organizations with the stature 94 00:05:47,834 --> 00:05:51,999 and effect of the NPT and IAEA to oversee the cybersecurity. 95 00:05:52,292 --> 00:05:55,584 Additionally the IAEA promotes peaceful use 96 00:05:55,584 --> 00:06:01,751 of nuclear energy while trying to for military for nuclear purposes. 97 00:06:04,125 --> 00:06:07,083 Regional and national forums have discussed the future 98 00:06:07,083 --> 00:06:11,334 of internet governance, but there has been minimal progress. 99 00:06:11,834 --> 00:06:14,626 Indeed the very definition of the cyber domain remains blurred, 100 00:06:14,626 --> 00:06:18,918 but is not confined to the borders of any particular country. 101 00:06:18,999 --> 00:06:21,999 As the Council of Foreign Relation's recent report 102 00:06:21,999 --> 00:06:25,834 from the independent task force on cybersecurity noted addressing 103 00:06:25,834 --> 00:06:29,542 the challenge of cyberspace is a global matter. 104 00:06:29,709 --> 00:06:33,501 And, quote, the effects of domestic decisions spread far 105 00:06:33,501 --> 00:06:37,999 beyond national borders and will affect not only users, companies, 106 00:06:37,999 --> 00:06:42,584 non governmental organizations, and policymakers in other countries 107 00:06:42,584 --> 00:06:46,334 but also the health, stability, resilience and integrity 108 00:06:46,334 --> 00:06:49,999 of the global internet closed quotes. 109 00:06:50,083 --> 00:06:54,792 International approaches to cybersecurity are critical. 110 00:06:55,083 --> 00:06:57,667 Yet fraud with challenges of balancing free trade 111 00:06:57,667 --> 00:07:00,584 with a global regulatory framework and protection 112 00:07:00,584 --> 00:07:04,918 of intellectual property promoting national security including security 113 00:07:04,918 --> 00:07:09,209 of critical infrastructure and protecting privacy where national standards 114 00:07:09,209 --> 00:07:12,584 on this issue differ across the globe. 115 00:07:12,792 --> 00:07:15,083 Let me talk about the U.S. 116 00:07:15,083 --> 00:07:15,999 executive order on improving critical 117 00:07:15,999 --> 00:07:18,250 infrastructure cybersecurity. 118 00:07:18,334 --> 00:07:23,375 It's very explicit, and I think you are all familiar with the executive order, 119 00:07:23,375 --> 00:07:26,584 explicit in stating that, quote, the cyber threat 120 00:07:26,584 --> 00:07:30,667 to critical infrastructure continues to grow and represents one 121 00:07:30,667 --> 00:07:35,876 of the most serious national security challenges we now confront. 122 00:07:36,125 --> 00:07:39,292 The national and economic security of the United States depends 123 00:07:39,292 --> 00:07:42,459 on reliable functioning of the nation's critical infrastructure 124 00:07:42,459 --> 00:07:44,918 in the face of such threats. 125 00:07:44,999 --> 00:07:47,959 It is the policy of the United States to enhance 126 00:07:47,959 --> 00:07:51,959 the security and resilience of the nation's critical infrastructure 127 00:07:51,959 --> 00:07:54,999 and to maintain a cyber environment that encourages 128 00:07:54,999 --> 00:07:57,999 efficiency, innovation, and economic prosperity while 129 00:07:57,999 --> 00:08:01,751 promoting safety, security, business confidentiality, privacy 130 00:08:01,751 --> 00:08:03,999 and civil liberties. 131 00:08:03,999 --> 00:08:05,999 We can achieve these goals through a partnership 132 00:08:05,999 --> 00:08:09,125 with the owners and operators of critical infrastructure 133 00:08:09,125 --> 00:08:13,417 to improve cybersecurity information sharing and collaboratively develop 134 00:08:13,417 --> 00:08:18,125 and implement risk base that's a quote from the executive order. 135 00:08:19,999 --> 00:08:22,083 You will have a chance to ask questions and we can have 136 00:08:22,083 --> 00:08:23,834 a conversation. 137 00:08:23,999 --> 00:08:26,083 In the global information age, computers and 138 00:08:26,083 --> 00:08:29,999 the internet are integral to every aspect of society, education, 139 00:08:29,999 --> 00:08:32,709 healthcare, economic growth. 140 00:08:32,709 --> 00:08:33,999 No area is untouched. 141 00:08:34,417 --> 00:08:37,125 Robert Macky who has been here writing for the Council 142 00:08:37,125 --> 00:08:40,292 of Foreign Affairs and I quote, the tremendous gains 143 00:08:40,292 --> 00:08:43,626 in economic productivity over the past two decades are 144 00:08:43,626 --> 00:08:46,584 the direct result of the expanded use of internet 145 00:08:46,584 --> 00:08:49,709 for communications collaboration, outsourcing, just 146 00:08:49,709 --> 00:08:54,918 in time inventory management and the control of industrial processes. 147 00:08:55,083 --> 00:08:58,292 Internationally the surge in global trade in both goods 148 00:08:58,292 --> 00:09:03,375 and services that has taken place could not have happened without internet 149 00:09:03,375 --> 00:09:07,167 as an enabling technology, closed quotes. 150 00:09:07,501 --> 00:09:10,417 As with many peaceful and beneficial uses of nuclear power, 151 00:09:10,417 --> 00:09:13,417 there obviously are many peaceful socioeconomic uses 152 00:09:13,417 --> 00:09:15,999 of information technology. 153 00:09:15,999 --> 00:09:19,542 I believe it would be a mistake, however, to think that cyber presently 154 00:09:19,542 --> 00:09:22,918 can be used as a tool to counter real or potential nuclear threats 155 00:09:22,918 --> 00:09:24,918 as some have argued. 156 00:09:24,999 --> 00:09:32,999 They cite and its reported effectiveness in disabling a nuclear threat. 157 00:09:33,459 --> 00:09:35,999 And I think many of you are familiar 158 00:09:35,999 --> 00:09:40,250 with disabling a certain number of centrifuges. 159 00:09:45,918 --> 00:09:50,083 Beyond the reach of any so-called cyber capability. 160 00:09:50,083 --> 00:09:53,125 As stated in the aforementioned U.S. 161 00:09:53,125 --> 00:09:54,751 executive order, cyber's true harmful capacity 162 00:09:54,751 --> 00:09:57,083 in addition to stealing intellectual property 163 00:09:57,083 --> 00:10:00,667 is its potential to attack a country's critical infrastructure, 164 00:10:00,667 --> 00:10:03,209 its grid, water supply, aviation safety systems, 165 00:10:03,209 --> 00:10:07,999 communications, financial system, things are all very familiar with. 166 00:10:08,125 --> 00:10:11,999 It's a tax of this nature that makes cyber as potentially harmful as those 167 00:10:11,999 --> 00:10:15,999 of biological and nuclear attacks, and, therefore, must be approached 168 00:10:15,999 --> 00:10:19,626 with equal seriousness and focus on prevention. 169 00:10:19,999 --> 00:10:23,999 Theoretically any country or person or organization can conduct such 170 00:10:23,999 --> 00:10:27,334 a tax assuming knowledge and capacity. 171 00:10:27,334 --> 00:10:29,292 That's not the case with nuclear. 172 00:10:29,292 --> 00:10:31,000 Given the finite number of nuclear weapon states and 173 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,167 the likelihood that if they use, and I emphasize 174 00:10:33,167 --> 00:10:35,501 if they use nuclear weapons against another country 175 00:10:35,501 --> 00:10:37,959 they in turn would be attacked. 176 00:10:38,542 --> 00:10:40,999 Mutual assured destruction. 177 00:10:40,999 --> 00:10:44,292 Having nuclear weapons is a deterrent to nuclear attack. 178 00:10:46,792 --> 00:10:50,709 If an event occurred one can assume who the cyber perpetrator was, 179 00:10:50,709 --> 00:10:54,417 but the forensic fingerprint is less apparent, thus making such 180 00:10:54,417 --> 00:10:58,709 an attack potentially more attractive to an aggressor. 181 00:10:58,709 --> 00:11:02,999 I cite the recent attacks against Saudi Arabia, Georgia and 182 00:11:02,999 --> 00:11:05,626 the United States. 183 00:11:05,626 --> 00:11:07,292 Their impact was devastating. 184 00:11:07,667 --> 00:11:10,999 That was not the case with nuclear as we mentioned and 185 00:11:10,999 --> 00:11:15,250 for that very reason more must be done to insure that cyber technology 186 00:11:15,250 --> 00:11:18,125 is not used for those purposes. 187 00:11:18,250 --> 00:11:20,999 The leverages for the international community 188 00:11:20,999 --> 00:11:23,751 and respective governments in addition 189 00:11:23,751 --> 00:11:27,876 to using cyber more effectively for socioeconomic purposes 190 00:11:27,876 --> 00:11:31,999 to help create firewalls necessary to stop cyber attack or 191 00:11:31,999 --> 00:11:36,417 for attacking a country's critical infrastructure. 192 00:11:36,876 --> 00:11:38,999 While also addressing the international challenge 193 00:11:38,999 --> 00:11:41,083 of agreements on policies that protect free trade 194 00:11:41,083 --> 00:11:44,083 and international governance of the internet. 195 00:11:44,083 --> 00:11:46,083 This is the challenge and responsibility confronting 196 00:11:46,083 --> 00:11:48,584 the international community. 197 00:11:48,626 --> 00:11:52,709 Moreover cyber technology generically can be used to get countries 198 00:11:52,709 --> 00:11:56,999 and non state actives from establishing and sustaining illicit 199 00:11:56,999 --> 00:12:01,542 programs while each state doctrinally is studying the role of cyber 200 00:12:01,542 --> 00:12:03,999 for military conflict. 201 00:12:04,334 --> 00:12:09,709 In my view it requires international organizations that oversee, manage 202 00:12:09,709 --> 00:12:14,999 and help control the use of cyber, organizations that not only monitor 203 00:12:14,999 --> 00:12:18,459 the use of cyber, but encourage the peaceful use 204 00:12:18,459 --> 00:12:23,999 of cyber and permit and aid other countries as we do in the nuclear field, 205 00:12:23,999 --> 00:12:29,584 other countries to benefit from these technological advances. 206 00:12:29,584 --> 00:12:33,209 In addition, the need for an international cyberware treaty, 207 00:12:33,209 --> 00:12:35,626 as was made for chemical weapons 208 00:12:35,626 --> 00:12:39,334 after we realized the terrible damage that it caused 209 00:12:39,334 --> 00:12:43,083 in World War I, I believe the nuclear issue requires 210 00:12:43,083 --> 00:12:45,209 enhanced focus. 211 00:12:45,209 --> 00:12:46,999 I will go back to the nuclear issue. 212 00:12:46,999 --> 00:12:48,999 This is my area of focus, insuring that North Korea gives 213 00:12:48,999 --> 00:12:51,584 up nuclear weapons and Iran unequivocally renounces 214 00:12:51,584 --> 00:12:54,083 pursuit after nuclear weapons. 215 00:12:54,083 --> 00:12:56,167 This is the progress U.S. 216 00:12:56,167 --> 00:13:02,250 and Russia are making with new start, bringing down the number to 1550. 217 00:13:02,334 --> 00:13:04,999 The president spoke about bringing it down to 1,000. 218 00:13:04,999 --> 00:13:05,709 We will put the international community 219 00:13:05,709 --> 00:13:09,292 on the road towards a world with no nuclear weapons. 220 00:13:12,209 --> 00:13:15,501 Robert Oppenheimer understood the need to move 221 00:13:15,501 --> 00:13:19,792 in this direction when he observed that the first detonation 222 00:13:19,792 --> 00:13:24,999 of a nuclear device on July 16th, 1945, citing Hindu scripture that, quote, 223 00:13:24,999 --> 00:13:28,999 I am become death, destroyer of the world. 224 00:13:29,417 --> 00:13:32,999 We have the opportunity and obligation to move in a different direction, not 225 00:13:32,999 --> 00:13:35,918 to destroy the world, but to enhance it. 226 00:13:35,918 --> 00:13:39,999 Most of you are experts in the field of information technology. 227 00:13:39,999 --> 00:13:42,626 You understand the cyber domain. 228 00:13:42,709 --> 00:13:46,834 You understand its beneficial impact on all of our lives. 229 00:13:46,834 --> 00:13:48,626 You also understand the harm it can cause 230 00:13:48,626 --> 00:13:50,876 if used improperly. 231 00:13:50,876 --> 00:13:52,999 Indeed we look to you to develop better tools 232 00:13:52,999 --> 00:13:56,999 and help establish policies, and I emphasize this, policies 233 00:13:56,999 --> 00:14:00,209 to fortify and protect networks. 234 00:14:00,209 --> 00:14:04,083 We look to you to develop more secure systems, 235 00:14:04,083 --> 00:14:10,751 to help discover terrorist plots, to uncover human trafficking, 236 00:14:10,751 --> 00:14:14,542 corruption in WMD programs. 237 00:14:14,542 --> 00:14:18,918 We look to you to inspire others to organize and enlist good hackers 238 00:14:18,918 --> 00:14:21,999 to help combat the sinister hackers who steal 239 00:14:21,999 --> 00:14:26,999 intellectual property, disrupt networks, interfere with communications, 240 00:14:26,999 --> 00:14:30,584 banking and critical infrastructure. 241 00:14:30,584 --> 00:14:35,999 Our private and public sectors need your help, need your expertise 242 00:14:35,999 --> 00:14:38,501 to serve society. 243 00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:42,999 Using technology wisely has always been the measure 244 00:14:42,999 --> 00:14:45,999 of an enlightened society. 245 00:14:46,584 --> 00:14:52,959 The security of our nation needs you, the good hackers of Def Con. 246 00:14:53,751 --> 00:14:56,167 I will end on that and maybe we can open it 247 00:14:56,167 --> 00:15:00,459 to discussions or questions or wherever you want to go. 248 00:15:03,792 --> 00:15:05,083 Thanks. 249 00:15:08,334 --> 00:15:09,792 (Applause). 250 00:15:12,999 --> 00:15:14,834 Please, sir. 251 00:15:17,999 --> 00:15:56,501 I'm sorry, we have a question here. 252 00:15:56,501 --> 00:15:58,999 (Speaking off mic). 253 00:15:58,999 --> 00:16:01,542 Do we want to take this or do you want to ask? 254 00:16:01,792 --> 00:16:03,709 Do we want to take this question first? 255 00:16:04,292 --> 00:16:06,209 Repeat the question. 256 00:16:06,209 --> 00:16:07,999 No, you, you repeat the question. 257 00:16:13,959 --> 00:16:16,542 I'm going to repeat the question. 258 00:16:17,999 --> 00:16:19,250 (Applause). 259 00:16:20,751 --> 00:16:23,083 Monitoring by the government could be a tool 260 00:16:23,083 --> 00:16:25,542 of repression, and the assurances necessary 261 00:16:25,542 --> 00:16:28,918 to assure that the government is not doing, I assume that's 262 00:16:28,918 --> 00:16:31,834 the question, it is not doing that? 263 00:16:31,999 --> 00:16:37,083 Let me tell you I have been working WMD for ten years, ten years. 264 00:16:37,083 --> 00:16:38,751 I have been working North Korea, I have been working a lot 265 00:16:38,751 --> 00:16:40,250 of other issues. 266 00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:41,999 What about Iraq? 267 00:16:41,999 --> 00:16:43,709 I have been working a lot of other issues if it relates 268 00:16:43,709 --> 00:16:45,999 to weapons of mass destruction. 269 00:16:46,667 --> 00:16:50,667 I can tell you this, if you want to get to what we have been talking 270 00:16:50,667 --> 00:16:54,626 about with the Snowden disclosures and so forth my exposure to that 271 00:16:54,626 --> 00:16:57,999 is what you have been exposed to is that those programs, 272 00:16:57,999 --> 00:17:02,918 those programs were authorized by the three branches of government. 273 00:17:04,999 --> 00:17:08,250 Those programs, the three branches of government provided oversight 274 00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:11,999 of those programs and those programs were established post 9/11 when we 275 00:17:11,999 --> 00:17:14,334 saw the devastation of 9/11 and when we saw where 276 00:17:14,334 --> 00:17:17,999 the terrorists were coming and what their intent was. 277 00:17:17,999 --> 00:17:19,083 So you have the three branches of government authorizing 278 00:17:19,083 --> 00:17:20,792 and overseeing it. 279 00:17:22,999 --> 00:17:25,083 That's what it was. 280 00:17:25,292 --> 00:17:28,083 And they have been effective according to the record. 281 00:17:28,334 --> 00:17:30,626 The fact of the matter is a decision has been made 282 00:17:30,626 --> 00:17:34,250 to make this more overt and more of a discussion. 283 00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:36,999 I don't pretend to be an expert or have the knowledge you have, 284 00:17:36,999 --> 00:17:40,334 but I think you have to have an open mind if there is a discussion, 285 00:17:40,334 --> 00:17:43,999 participate in that discussion in a meaningful way. 286 00:17:44,918 --> 00:17:47,292 Listen to let me finish my statement. 287 00:17:50,999 --> 00:17:52,999 Do it in a meaningful way. 288 00:17:52,999 --> 00:17:54,334 Listen to both sides of it. 289 00:17:54,334 --> 00:17:55,876 Listen to what the thread is. 290 00:17:55,876 --> 00:17:57,417 Listen to what they are doing because everything I have heard, 291 00:17:57,417 --> 00:18:00,375 they are not getting into anyone's mail, they are not reading anything, 292 00:18:00,375 --> 00:18:02,709 they are not touching any U.S. 293 00:18:02,709 --> 00:18:04,542 persons, this is not directed at U.S. 294 00:18:04,959 --> 00:18:07,999 citizens, this is looking at foreign terrorist threats 295 00:18:07,999 --> 00:18:09,999 to the country. 296 00:18:10,083 --> 00:18:13,918 Look at the facts and then draw your own conclusions, but there 297 00:18:13,918 --> 00:18:16,792 will be a discussion on them. 298 00:18:16,792 --> 00:18:17,999 How do we know? 299 00:18:17,999 --> 00:18:19,584 You have access to the media. 300 00:18:19,584 --> 00:18:21,999 The media said there will be more of a discussion. 301 00:18:30,083 --> 00:18:34,999 No, what I'm talking about, being there are no the question 302 00:18:34,999 --> 00:18:39,250 is putting up firewalls, when I say putting up firewalls, 303 00:18:39,250 --> 00:18:44,584 how do we protect, because the internet has no borders. 304 00:18:44,792 --> 00:18:45,918 It's global. 305 00:18:45,918 --> 00:18:49,083 How do companies protect their intellectual property? 306 00:18:49,083 --> 00:18:52,167 How do governments protect their critical infrastructure? 307 00:18:52,167 --> 00:18:53,999 Putting up firewalls, looking at securing networks, 308 00:18:53,999 --> 00:18:57,999 doing what's necessary to insure that we are protecting our 309 00:18:57,999 --> 00:19:00,792 intellectual property, we are protecting our 310 00:19:00,792 --> 00:19:03,209 critical infrastructure. 311 00:19:09,501 --> 00:19:12,876 No, no, no, you misunderstood, I was talking about I'm talking 312 00:19:12,876 --> 00:19:16,584 about I'm talking about international organizations. 313 00:19:16,584 --> 00:19:19,250 I mentioned the IAEA, that's an international organization, NPT 314 00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:22,209 is an international organization. 315 00:19:22,209 --> 00:19:24,375 That's what I'm talking about, creating organizations that 316 00:19:24,375 --> 00:19:25,999 oversee this. 317 00:19:25,999 --> 00:19:29,999 This is not a nation issue, it's not country specific issue. 318 00:19:29,999 --> 00:19:32,083 This is a global and international issue. 319 00:19:32,083 --> 00:19:34,292 Creating international organizations that will do exactly that 320 00:19:34,292 --> 00:19:36,999 because of the concerns you have. 321 00:19:36,999 --> 00:19:40,626 And there is valid concerns, both of your questions are very valid. 322 00:19:40,999 --> 00:19:42,167 Sir? 323 00:19:56,083 --> 00:19:57,542 Thanks. 324 00:20:11,417 --> 00:20:13,542 (Speaking off mic). 325 00:20:27,417 --> 00:20:28,959 That's very good. 326 00:20:28,959 --> 00:20:30,959 The question, the question from the gentleman 327 00:20:30,959 --> 00:20:35,000 is the policy that's being made by individuals that don't really 328 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,959 understand the impact and the consequences 329 00:20:37,959 --> 00:20:40,834 for making that policy and indeed inhibiting 330 00:20:40,834 --> 00:20:46,459 and possibly persecuting individuals that want to move forward on that. 331 00:20:46,459 --> 00:20:49,999 Let me just say, that's why you all can make a difference. 332 00:20:50,042 --> 00:20:52,459 You have the expertise. 333 00:20:52,459 --> 00:20:54,834 And you are not all old white men. 334 00:20:54,999 --> 00:20:56,000 I look around. 335 00:20:56,584 --> 00:20:58,167 You could make the difference. 336 00:20:58,167 --> 00:20:59,876 You can get involved. 337 00:20:59,999 --> 00:21:01,999 You can have that impact. 338 00:21:02,250 --> 00:21:05,083 Now, you can have that impact also with your representatives, 339 00:21:05,083 --> 00:21:07,459 because this is a representative government, right, 340 00:21:07,459 --> 00:21:09,083 it's' republic. 341 00:21:09,167 --> 00:21:10,999 Make your impact with your representatives 342 00:21:10,999 --> 00:21:13,501 and get involved in the issues. 343 00:21:13,501 --> 00:21:15,334 I can't emphasize that enough. 344 00:21:15,334 --> 00:21:16,334 Okay. 345 00:21:16,626 --> 00:21:19,292 Guys, we have a Microphone to use for Q and A. 346 00:21:19,292 --> 00:21:22,999 So if you could form a line over here. 347 00:21:49,292 --> 00:21:50,999 (Speaking off mic). 348 00:21:50,999 --> 00:21:52,876 Can I ask a favor of you, if you would be kind enough, sir, 349 00:21:52,876 --> 00:21:55,751 to come up and use the mic, I think the lady is absolutely right, 350 00:21:55,751 --> 00:21:57,918 so everybody can hear it. 351 00:22:01,209 --> 00:22:05,417 Sorry, I was going to say that I appreciate your response. 352 00:22:05,417 --> 00:22:07,083 The only thing I was going to say was that 353 00:22:07,083 --> 00:22:11,834 in the security research division that we have right now, the way it is, 354 00:22:11,834 --> 00:22:15,999 the way things are right now, if someone uncovers a security flaw, 355 00:22:15,999 --> 00:22:18,999 they have to watch for government prosecution 356 00:22:18,999 --> 00:22:22,542 for being sued by, you know, Cisco or some other company 357 00:22:22,542 --> 00:22:27,083 because they are uncovering a flaw and they are making public knowledge 358 00:22:27,083 --> 00:22:32,334 of a security issue, and it's not really in their best interest to, like you said, 359 00:22:32,334 --> 00:22:36,584 to participate in that theater because they are basically opening 360 00:22:36,584 --> 00:22:39,083 themselves up to attack. 361 00:22:39,250 --> 00:22:44,083 Yes, look, the only thing I can say in that and I don't pretend to be 362 00:22:44,083 --> 00:22:48,834 an expert, this is really, cyber domain is not my area, but my sense 363 00:22:48,834 --> 00:22:52,999 of working issues that somewhat are related because I see cyber 364 00:22:52,999 --> 00:22:57,334 as being potentially a weapons of mass destruction when you look 365 00:22:57,334 --> 00:23:02,751 at the consequences and the need to get ahold in a global sense. 366 00:23:02,792 --> 00:23:06,083 That's why I cite the IAEA, I cite the NPT. 367 00:23:06,584 --> 00:23:09,167 This is something we have to come together on and we have 368 00:23:09,167 --> 00:23:11,083 to do it quickly. 369 00:23:11,999 --> 00:23:14,709 Further to your question, that's exactly it. 370 00:23:15,083 --> 00:23:18,999 I mean, so that when we find, the individuals find fault, they look 371 00:23:18,999 --> 00:23:23,083 at networks, they shouldn't be intimidated by that. 372 00:23:23,083 --> 00:23:25,292 They should be rewarded for doing that, to protect intellectual property, 373 00:23:25,292 --> 00:23:27,999 to protect infrastructure and so forth. 374 00:23:27,999 --> 00:23:29,083 That's all positive. 375 00:23:29,501 --> 00:23:33,083 I think what you are saying makes sense and I think working as, 376 00:23:33,083 --> 00:23:36,417 not necessarily as a team, but certainly as a team, 377 00:23:36,417 --> 00:23:39,626 but galvanizing that, and look what you have here 378 00:23:39,626 --> 00:23:41,250 at Def Con. 379 00:23:41,250 --> 00:23:42,999 Yesterday you had black hat. 380 00:23:42,999 --> 00:23:46,417 The whole cyber issue has a lot of traction, this is the time 381 00:23:46,417 --> 00:23:50,501 to come together on that, working with representatives, getting involved, 382 00:23:50,501 --> 00:23:53,999 getting involved with let me say and I know this sounds trite, 383 00:23:53,999 --> 00:23:56,709 but getting the jobs with the private sector many 384 00:23:56,709 --> 00:23:59,501 of you are doing, getting jobs with the government, 385 00:23:59,501 --> 00:24:03,751 getting very much involved, so you become the new culture. 386 00:24:03,876 --> 00:24:06,709 And it's not just as you described, the old white men making these 387 00:24:06,709 --> 00:24:08,667 decisions and so forth. 388 00:24:08,667 --> 00:24:10,292 You become and you move us in this new domain which has 389 00:24:10,292 --> 00:24:12,584 significant consequences. 390 00:24:12,584 --> 00:24:14,542 So I think your questions are very good. 391 00:24:14,542 --> 00:24:15,542 Thank you. 392 00:24:15,876 --> 00:24:18,626 So I'm not really sure why you are here because you don't, 393 00:24:18,626 --> 00:24:21,959 and you said you are not an expert on anything I'm sorry, 394 00:24:21,959 --> 00:24:23,918 I didn't hear you. 395 00:24:23,918 --> 00:24:27,083 I'm not really sure why you are here, but since you are here 396 00:24:27,083 --> 00:24:30,999 and talking about weapons of mass destruction I'm here 397 00:24:30,999 --> 00:24:33,584 because I was invited. 398 00:24:33,792 --> 00:24:38,751 The point being we just spent ten years killing 100,000 people in Iraq 399 00:24:38,751 --> 00:24:42,083 for weapons of mass destruction which appears 400 00:24:42,083 --> 00:24:44,709 to be your expertise. 401 00:24:44,709 --> 00:24:47,083 I'd like your comments on the lies that got us 402 00:24:47,083 --> 00:24:49,417 into that where people like you came 403 00:24:49,417 --> 00:24:52,417 out with the propaganda that there were weapons 404 00:24:52,417 --> 00:24:56,792 of mass destruction everywhere, that they were imminent to be used, 405 00:24:56,792 --> 00:25:00,999 that they weren't there, and that all of that government propaganda 406 00:25:00,999 --> 00:25:06,918 is lies and why shouldn't we consider that what you are saying now is lies? 407 00:25:07,209 --> 00:25:08,334 (Applause). 408 00:25:08,751 --> 00:25:13,209 Because I don't think the feds tell the truth and I think we should fuck 409 00:25:13,209 --> 00:25:14,959 the feds. 410 00:25:14,959 --> 00:25:16,999 Let me ask you a question. 411 00:25:16,999 --> 00:25:18,918 You could assume whatever you want. 412 00:25:18,999 --> 00:25:21,250 I'm listening, I'm not assuming. 413 00:25:21,250 --> 00:25:23,334 You can assume whatever you want. 414 00:25:24,876 --> 00:25:26,459 Let me finish. 415 00:25:26,999 --> 00:25:29,918 You can assume whatever you want, but if you want to be blinded 416 00:25:29,918 --> 00:25:33,999 to what's happening, you want to be blinded to the terrorism threat. 417 00:25:36,876 --> 00:25:39,999 9/11 was not a reality. 418 00:25:39,999 --> 00:25:43,250 Was 9/11 caused by weapons of mass destruction? 419 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:44,999 We want to be blinded. 420 00:25:44,999 --> 00:25:46,083 We will listen to you. 421 00:25:46,083 --> 00:25:48,876 Why did we go to Iraq and kill those people? 422 00:25:48,876 --> 00:25:50,334 The government told us because it was because of weapons 423 00:25:50,334 --> 00:25:52,083 of mass destruction. 424 00:25:55,083 --> 00:26:02,626 We have a 50% death rate and a 30% Let me just say something. 425 00:26:02,999 --> 00:26:08,501 In my presentation this morning, I was not talking about Iraq. 426 00:26:08,999 --> 00:26:14,999 That's what we want to talk about it, weapons of mass destruction. 427 00:26:14,999 --> 00:26:16,626 The fact of the matter is and I'm not going back 428 00:26:16,626 --> 00:26:18,999 to the history on this because I think the record 429 00:26:18,999 --> 00:26:22,125 is very clear that Saddam did not have weapons at that time and 430 00:26:22,125 --> 00:26:24,999 the government has said that clearly. 431 00:26:24,999 --> 00:26:27,167 The fact is when you go back to the first Gulf War, 432 00:26:27,167 --> 00:26:29,667 when you go back to what Saddam was doing, 433 00:26:29,667 --> 00:26:32,999 when you go back to plans, to the scientists working on it, 434 00:26:32,999 --> 00:26:36,250 Saddam was pursuing it years before that. 435 00:26:36,250 --> 00:26:38,375 At the moment, at that time, no. 436 00:26:38,375 --> 00:26:40,292 And I think the record is clear on that. 437 00:26:40,292 --> 00:26:43,083 The fact of the matter is Syria with chemical weapons. 438 00:26:43,083 --> 00:26:46,209 It should not blind you to the fact that Iran goes forward 439 00:26:46,209 --> 00:26:48,584 with nuclear weapons. 440 00:26:48,584 --> 00:26:50,999 It shouldn't blind you to the fact that terrorist organizations 441 00:26:50,999 --> 00:26:54,417 are trying to get their hands on the material. 442 00:26:54,417 --> 00:26:55,999 And the reality that the government is lying 443 00:26:55,999 --> 00:26:58,250 about those things as well. 444 00:26:58,542 --> 00:27:02,792 The terrorists may be there and the government is lying to cover it up. 445 00:27:02,792 --> 00:27:05,417 You can believe what you want, but I can tell you we have a lot 446 00:27:05,417 --> 00:27:09,250 of dedicated Americans working these issues who care about the safety 447 00:27:09,250 --> 00:27:12,834 of American people, care about the safety of you and all of us 448 00:27:12,834 --> 00:27:16,751 in this room and spend time doing that because we know what the threat 449 00:27:16,751 --> 00:27:19,999 is and we are trying to communicate that. 450 00:27:19,999 --> 00:27:21,999 If you don't want to hear that, if you want to be oblivious to it, 451 00:27:21,999 --> 00:27:23,959 that's your business. 452 00:27:23,959 --> 00:27:24,834 There are a lot of people putting their lives 453 00:27:24,834 --> 00:27:27,250 on the line to protect all of us in this room. 454 00:27:29,876 --> 00:27:31,083 (Applause). 455 00:27:33,709 --> 00:27:36,999 That's not what you are doing. 456 00:27:36,999 --> 00:27:37,999 (Applause). 457 00:27:37,999 --> 00:27:39,375 Thank you for being here. 458 00:27:39,375 --> 00:27:42,918 I think this is a question you don't need to answer, but who participated 459 00:27:42,918 --> 00:27:45,375 in creating the speech? 460 00:27:45,375 --> 00:27:46,667 I'm sorry? 461 00:27:46,667 --> 00:27:49,709 Who participated in creating the speech? 462 00:27:49,709 --> 00:27:50,709 What speech? 463 00:27:50,709 --> 00:27:52,167 Like the one you just gave. 464 00:27:52,167 --> 00:27:53,167 I did. 465 00:27:53,167 --> 00:27:54,167 Only you? 466 00:27:54,167 --> 00:27:55,167 Only me. 467 00:27:55,167 --> 00:27:56,167 Okay. 468 00:27:56,167 --> 00:27:57,167 Thank you. 469 00:27:57,501 --> 00:27:59,584 You mentioned Iran at the beginning of your speech 470 00:27:59,584 --> 00:28:02,999 and said they were months away from creating a nuclear weapon. 471 00:28:02,999 --> 00:28:04,626 Considering the fact we have heard that 472 00:28:04,626 --> 00:28:09,167 in the last 30 years, particularly the last 8 years why should we believe 473 00:28:09,167 --> 00:28:13,209 you now when you have been so wrong in the past? 474 00:28:13,501 --> 00:28:16,626 Let me ask you to do this. 475 00:28:18,751 --> 00:28:22,792 I know you search the internet. 476 00:28:22,792 --> 00:28:27,999 Go onto the board of governors' report, the Director General of the IAEA, 477 00:28:27,999 --> 00:28:34,209 every three months he does a report to the board of directors. 478 00:28:34,209 --> 00:28:37,834 Go to the May 22nd, 2013 and see what the IAEA, 479 00:28:37,834 --> 00:28:42,667 independent organization says about Iran's program, 480 00:28:42,667 --> 00:28:48,709 about the 17,000 subterfuges, the sophistication about the 180, 481 00:28:48,709 --> 00:28:54,918 now 190 kilograms of uranium being enriched to purity. 482 00:28:58,667 --> 00:29:05,501 Six tons, six tons of uranium enriched to 5% purity. 483 00:29:05,501 --> 00:29:07,626 We are talking about five to six weapons. 484 00:29:07,626 --> 00:29:10,667 Talk about what the IAE it's not what the U.S. 485 00:29:10,999 --> 00:29:14,125 government is saying, it's what the IAE is saying, read that report 486 00:29:14,125 --> 00:29:17,999 and the ones that preceded it and the one coming out in a few weeks 487 00:29:17,999 --> 00:29:20,709 and draw your own conclusions. 488 00:29:21,918 --> 00:29:23,626 We have all of these reports going back years 489 00:29:23,626 --> 00:29:24,999 and years. 490 00:29:27,999 --> 00:29:32,083 Every year there is a scary report about Iran developing nuclear weapons. 491 00:29:32,542 --> 00:29:36,375 We are not talking developing, we are saying they have 492 00:29:36,375 --> 00:29:43,083 a capability and if they make a decision, they could do that within months. 493 00:29:43,083 --> 00:29:46,999 Hopefully they don't make that decision because it will open up some suspect, 494 00:29:46,999 --> 00:29:49,334 I suspect as a person that that would open 495 00:29:49,334 --> 00:29:51,501 up the Middle East. 496 00:29:51,751 --> 00:29:54,999 I don't think countries are going to sit there when you look 497 00:29:54,999 --> 00:29:58,834 at the Sunni Shiite, when you look at Iran's support to Hezbollah, 498 00:29:58,834 --> 00:30:02,042 when you look at what's going on in Syria. 499 00:30:02,209 --> 00:30:07,999 That would be a concern if you are sitting in Israel. 500 00:30:08,417 --> 00:30:11,501 Iran with nuclear weapons is an existential threat. 501 00:30:12,083 --> 00:30:19,918 I'm sure Iran containing weapons is a more greater existential threat. 502 00:30:24,999 --> 00:30:29,167 Sir, just read the you are making conclusions. 503 00:30:29,999 --> 00:30:33,751 I'm making my own assessments, you make your own assessment. 504 00:30:33,999 --> 00:30:36,792 Have you read the board of directors' report? 505 00:30:36,792 --> 00:30:37,792 I have not. 506 00:30:37,792 --> 00:30:39,375 Have you read any of the report? 507 00:30:39,375 --> 00:30:41,542 As soon as even if he accepts it though, he is saying 508 00:30:41,542 --> 00:30:44,167 he trusts over states last. 509 00:30:44,167 --> 00:30:46,792 So even if he accepts that they are doing it. 510 00:30:46,792 --> 00:30:48,250 Accepts they are doing what? 511 00:30:48,501 --> 00:30:51,042 Accepts that Iran is making those. 512 00:30:51,042 --> 00:30:52,834 I'm not following your logic. 513 00:30:52,834 --> 00:30:53,999 I'm sorry. 514 00:30:53,999 --> 00:30:56,959 I give up. 515 00:30:56,999 --> 00:30:58,209 Okay. 516 00:30:58,834 --> 00:31:01,999 I think the way that you are approaching 517 00:31:01,999 --> 00:31:07,501 the cyber issue is wrong headed, and misses the point. 518 00:31:07,501 --> 00:31:10,417 So we don't need an international I think I can tell you 519 00:31:10,417 --> 00:31:14,626 talk about protecting our nation's grid and so on. 520 00:31:14,626 --> 00:31:17,250 If our nation had a power grid that was robust, 521 00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:22,125 you wouldn't need firewalls protecting other people or protecting us 522 00:31:22,125 --> 00:31:24,501 from other people. 523 00:31:24,501 --> 00:31:28,334 We need to make what we have secure, and then this talk about monitoring 524 00:31:28,334 --> 00:31:31,167 the world's cyber, which is pretty ridiculous 525 00:31:31,167 --> 00:31:33,959 because it can't be seen. 526 00:31:33,999 --> 00:31:37,999 I mean, the things that you are talking about might work when people have 527 00:31:37,999 --> 00:31:40,999 to haul weapons around the world, might work when 528 00:31:40,999 --> 00:31:44,792 they are actual problems like you could drop a bomb on this, 529 00:31:44,792 --> 00:31:48,083 but if the grid is robust, the grid will be robust even 530 00:31:48,083 --> 00:31:50,918 if people are poking at it. 531 00:31:50,918 --> 00:31:53,999 What we need to do to be secure is to be secure in and of ourselves 532 00:31:53,999 --> 00:31:57,417 and stop playing this game like we can control the world, 533 00:31:57,417 --> 00:32:02,083 like we can see cyber and it's some sort of weapon we can stop. 534 00:32:02,501 --> 00:32:03,834 It will never work. 535 00:32:04,125 --> 00:32:05,709 (Applause). 536 00:32:06,083 --> 00:32:09,167 Well, let me just say, if we could make our systems 537 00:32:09,167 --> 00:32:13,999 as robust as you just described, whether it's our corporations that are 538 00:32:13,999 --> 00:32:19,459 losing intellectual property, and we just saw that in South Korea. 539 00:32:19,584 --> 00:32:21,542 We saw it in the United States, in Saudi. 540 00:32:21,542 --> 00:32:26,125 If these companies can insure that their systems are secure so that these bad 541 00:32:26,125 --> 00:32:30,667 hackers can't get into them or individuals or governments can't do 542 00:32:30,667 --> 00:32:32,999 that, that is fine. 543 00:32:32,999 --> 00:32:36,626 If we could come up with the grids that are impenetrable, 544 00:32:36,626 --> 00:32:40,083 that's our challenge to do that. 545 00:32:40,083 --> 00:32:42,999 The fact of the matter is we see vulnerability. 546 00:32:42,999 --> 00:32:43,999 We, internationally, I'm not talking 547 00:32:43,999 --> 00:32:46,334 about any particular country. 548 00:32:46,334 --> 00:32:49,292 Saudi Arabia, South Korea is not the United States. 549 00:32:49,876 --> 00:32:52,834 These countries are being affected, and so forth. 550 00:32:52,834 --> 00:32:55,999 So if we can collaborate, that's what I'm talking about. 551 00:32:55,999 --> 00:32:57,417 That's what the UN is about. 552 00:32:57,417 --> 00:33:00,375 You can collaborate on offering people technologies that 553 00:33:00,375 --> 00:33:03,334 they can use to secure their own systems, 554 00:33:03,334 --> 00:33:08,125 but there is Then we need to move forward on that. 555 00:33:08,125 --> 00:33:11,334 This is what I'm trying to say to you, the words that you are using to us, 556 00:33:11,334 --> 00:33:14,250 we recognize to be counterproductive. 557 00:33:14,250 --> 00:33:17,459 You want to put a firewall around this to help these people. 558 00:33:19,626 --> 00:33:23,999 There are things we could do to help these companies to be secure. 559 00:33:23,999 --> 00:33:25,501 That's your challenge. 560 00:33:25,501 --> 00:33:27,125 Now, you are interrupting me. 561 00:33:27,125 --> 00:33:29,999 I'm trying to say to you that the words you are using 562 00:33:29,999 --> 00:33:34,584 to us are ones that are guaranteed to make this conversation less 563 00:33:34,584 --> 00:33:39,626 effective, and we would be willing, probably, in a lot of ways to help, 564 00:33:39,626 --> 00:33:45,999 but the old world terms of firewalls, and monitoring, they just don't apply. 565 00:33:45,999 --> 00:33:51,250 If you want to know what would work, then ask us how you should be set up. 566 00:33:51,250 --> 00:33:54,209 Don't talk to us about working like the IAEA. 567 00:33:54,334 --> 00:33:55,999 Ask us how. 568 00:33:56,167 --> 00:33:59,501 Well, let me posit this to you, let me posit this to you. 569 00:33:59,626 --> 00:34:03,542 I'm giving you my experience working weapons of mass destruction. 570 00:34:04,834 --> 00:34:07,584 Obviously you are the expert on cyber technology, 571 00:34:07,584 --> 00:34:09,959 information technology. 572 00:34:09,999 --> 00:34:12,459 Move forward with what you just proposed. 573 00:34:12,876 --> 00:34:14,167 No, let me finish. 574 00:34:14,584 --> 00:34:16,626 Move forward with what you just proposed so that 575 00:34:16,626 --> 00:34:20,209 the South Koreas, the Georgias, the Saudi Arabias, the United States, 576 00:34:20,209 --> 00:34:24,501 our companies go out and work with these companies and do it. 577 00:34:24,501 --> 00:34:25,999 I know many of you are doing it. 578 00:34:25,999 --> 00:34:29,083 That's the challenge and that's the challenge I mentioned to you and 579 00:34:29,083 --> 00:34:31,999 all of us a few minutes ago. 580 00:34:32,125 --> 00:34:35,083 You, the experts, go out and do what you are talking about. 581 00:34:38,542 --> 00:34:41,999 I didn't want to offend you, but I don't use your name terminology 582 00:34:41,999 --> 00:34:44,459 because you are the expert in the area of cyber, 583 00:34:44,459 --> 00:34:46,709 information technology. 584 00:34:46,709 --> 00:34:47,792 I don't pretend to be. 585 00:34:47,792 --> 00:34:49,834 I'm using terminology I'm comfortable. 586 00:34:49,999 --> 00:34:55,626 If it's not applicable in your area, I think it's the intent, it's not the words. 587 00:34:55,626 --> 00:34:59,083 No, the intent I say yes, you say no. 588 00:34:59,083 --> 00:35:00,083 We disagree. 589 00:35:00,083 --> 00:35:03,584 Maybe I could help because I see that your intent, 590 00:35:03,584 --> 00:35:09,501 I get that you want to do these things, but the things that you are saying are 591 00:35:09,501 --> 00:35:13,417 sort of incorrect for the area, and if you just want 592 00:35:13,417 --> 00:35:17,083 to say my intents are good, I mean it from this, 593 00:35:17,083 --> 00:35:20,999 I have got this experience, then, okay. 594 00:35:21,083 --> 00:35:24,083 But when you put it that way, it's not going to work as well. 595 00:35:25,417 --> 00:35:28,918 So you mentioned that we should use skills to participate more 596 00:35:28,918 --> 00:35:31,959 and use our knowledge to help educate our representatives, 597 00:35:31,959 --> 00:35:33,334 et cetera. 598 00:35:33,334 --> 00:35:33,999 I know I have done a lot of lobbying on things 599 00:35:33,999 --> 00:35:35,999 like SOPA and things like that. 600 00:35:36,501 --> 00:35:40,667 The corporate interests have largely captured our representatives. 601 00:35:40,834 --> 00:35:43,792 What do you feel about the role of Hactivism and using our role 602 00:35:43,792 --> 00:35:45,999 in a modern democracy? 603 00:35:50,792 --> 00:35:53,375 I'm not hearing the end of your sentence. 604 00:35:53,375 --> 00:35:56,999 How do you feel about the role of hactivism or using our roles 605 00:35:56,999 --> 00:36:00,709 to influence behaviors, et cetera, as opposed to working 606 00:36:00,709 --> 00:36:04,918 through the traditional channels of government? 607 00:36:05,459 --> 00:36:06,999 Many of you I'm sure are working 608 00:36:06,999 --> 00:36:09,083 with the private sector. 609 00:36:09,334 --> 00:36:12,501 Cyber is one of the major issues, because we are talking 610 00:36:12,501 --> 00:36:16,167 about intellectual properties and billions of dollars, the billions 611 00:36:16,167 --> 00:36:19,999 of dollars that are being stolen from the corporate sector, not only 612 00:36:19,999 --> 00:36:23,584 in the United States, obviously, but globally, internationally, 613 00:36:23,584 --> 00:36:25,876 so getting involved with these companies 614 00:36:25,876 --> 00:36:27,999 to protect that, yes. 615 00:36:28,999 --> 00:36:32,999 I don't feel like you really answered the question, 616 00:36:32,999 --> 00:36:37,999 but, are you familiar with a group called Anonymous? 617 00:36:37,999 --> 00:36:39,501 I'm sorry? 618 00:36:43,250 --> 00:36:47,542 Basically my question comes down to it seems like working 619 00:36:47,542 --> 00:36:51,417 through the corporate structure, we are only reinforcing 620 00:36:51,417 --> 00:36:55,999 a structure that's working against I heard you said anonymous 621 00:36:55,999 --> 00:36:58,626 and I get your question. 622 00:36:59,876 --> 00:37:02,959 I'm talking about intellectual property. 623 00:37:03,125 --> 00:37:04,999 I'm talking about the many companies I think some 624 00:37:04,999 --> 00:37:06,792 of you are involved with that are losing 625 00:37:06,792 --> 00:37:08,751 intellectual property. 626 00:37:08,751 --> 00:37:12,834 But not only the United States globally, we are talking billions of dollars. 627 00:37:12,999 --> 00:37:14,792 We are talking about that. 628 00:37:14,792 --> 00:37:15,999 That's one aspect to it. 629 00:37:15,999 --> 00:37:18,834 The other aspects you mentioned anonymous there. 630 00:37:18,999 --> 00:37:21,834 Go forward, do what you have to do. 631 00:37:21,834 --> 00:37:23,999 I'm talking about intellectual property. 632 00:37:23,999 --> 00:37:26,167 I'm talking about critical infrastructure. 633 00:37:26,167 --> 00:37:27,167 That's my focus. 634 00:37:27,167 --> 00:37:28,709 Your focuses are different. 635 00:37:28,709 --> 00:37:29,709 That's fine. 636 00:37:31,834 --> 00:37:37,292 In your opinion, how has the NPT, non proliferation regime then impacted, 637 00:37:37,292 --> 00:37:41,459 I guess how much by regularizing civil nuclear relations 638 00:37:41,459 --> 00:37:43,209 with India? 639 00:37:43,792 --> 00:37:47,999 Well, the NPT, we would like countries to be part of the NPT 640 00:37:47,999 --> 00:37:52,876 and there are four countries not members of the NPT. 641 00:37:52,876 --> 00:37:53,876 Yes. 642 00:37:53,876 --> 00:37:55,417 And that's unfortunate. 643 00:37:55,417 --> 00:37:56,999 We would like to see all countries become members 644 00:37:56,999 --> 00:37:59,876 because of safeguards and protocols. 645 00:38:00,501 --> 00:38:03,667 So non member in the NPT because it affected the IEA and 646 00:38:03,667 --> 00:38:07,209 the monitoring aspects of negative development. 647 00:38:07,209 --> 00:38:09,542 We would like countries to be part of the NPT. 648 00:38:09,542 --> 00:38:13,292 So my question, is the act of the United States regularizing our 649 00:38:13,292 --> 00:38:17,542 relationship with India's civil nuclear regime actually 650 00:38:17,542 --> 00:38:20,334 working against the NPT? 651 00:38:20,834 --> 00:38:24,501 That's a bifurcated issue because the U.S. 652 00:38:24,501 --> 00:38:26,459 has decided there is a civilian program and 653 00:38:26,459 --> 00:38:29,417 a military program in India. 654 00:38:29,417 --> 00:38:31,876 And a decision was made by previous administration to deal 655 00:38:31,876 --> 00:38:34,626 with India in a bifurcated way. 656 00:38:34,626 --> 00:38:35,626 Okay. 657 00:38:35,626 --> 00:38:38,083 I was just, it seems like it's giving up one of the big carrots that 658 00:38:38,083 --> 00:38:39,709 the NPT has. 659 00:38:39,709 --> 00:38:43,209 It's countries like you just cited, and that's where we are with that, 660 00:38:43,209 --> 00:38:47,459 but we see India is a democracy, a country using civil nuclear programs 661 00:38:47,459 --> 00:38:51,250 in a meaningful way, and that's the bifurcation. 662 00:38:55,959 --> 00:38:59,334 Two things, the first one a shout out to Def Con 663 00:38:59,334 --> 00:39:02,250 for closed captioning there. 664 00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:03,834 I think that's fucking cool! 665 00:39:04,167 --> 00:39:06,292 So, yea Def Con! 666 00:39:08,709 --> 00:39:11,709 And then the second thing is, I guess I'm 667 00:39:11,709 --> 00:39:16,918 a little perplexed I don't know why I'm shaking, because it seems that 668 00:39:16,918 --> 00:39:20,999 in terms of resources that the government spends in terms 669 00:39:20,999 --> 00:39:25,292 of dealing with cyber warfare, it's always through the lens 670 00:39:25,292 --> 00:39:28,999 of state agents, that's the threat. 671 00:39:28,999 --> 00:39:32,375 And it seems to me that there is billions lost every day 672 00:39:32,375 --> 00:39:35,834 by people who are victims of cybercrime and that 673 00:39:35,834 --> 00:39:40,834 the NSA's mandate, for instance, doesn't at all deal with that, and that 674 00:39:40,834 --> 00:39:45,959 the government resources don't at all seem to address this. 675 00:39:45,959 --> 00:39:48,834 Yet to me, and I may be wrong, but it seems to me that that 676 00:39:48,834 --> 00:39:53,959 is proportionately in terms of its economic impact on the U.S. 677 00:39:53,959 --> 00:39:57,709 and other western nations the much bigger threat. 678 00:39:57,999 --> 00:39:59,375 Thanks. 679 00:39:59,375 --> 00:40:01,959 Well, those are fair comments and we need to, you need 680 00:40:01,959 --> 00:40:05,999 to get involved and all of us need to get involved. 681 00:40:05,999 --> 00:40:07,626 It's a multidimensional threat. 682 00:40:07,626 --> 00:40:08,999 I think you just cited that. 683 00:40:11,999 --> 00:40:15,000 Ambassador, I'm wondering what do you think 684 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,999 the prospects are for restarting the six party talks around North Korea, 685 00:40:19,999 --> 00:40:24,125 given that it seems most of the major players continue to fail 686 00:40:24,125 --> 00:40:29,584 to recognize the importance of signing a permanent peace treaty? 687 00:40:29,999 --> 00:40:31,999 JOSEPH DETRANI: I think it's important to get back 688 00:40:31,999 --> 00:40:34,334 to negotiations with North Korea. 689 00:40:34,626 --> 00:40:38,667 I think North Korea has indicated with the new government that 690 00:40:38,667 --> 00:40:43,792 they are prepared to address the denuclearization issue. 691 00:40:43,999 --> 00:40:47,999 It's not a question of non proliferation, it's a question of denuclearization. 692 00:40:47,999 --> 00:40:51,042 They are prepared to look at and consider the 1st of September, 693 00:40:51,042 --> 00:40:54,999 2005 joint statement that spoke to comprehensive denuclearization 694 00:40:54,999 --> 00:40:56,999 in exchange for security assurances 695 00:40:56,999 --> 00:40:59,334 and economic assistance. 696 00:41:01,584 --> 00:41:03,751 So I think there is a positive. 697 00:41:03,999 --> 00:41:06,083 The concern of immediately coming back 698 00:41:06,083 --> 00:41:10,542 to the six party talks is how sincere, how sincere is North Korea 699 00:41:10,542 --> 00:41:12,918 with this approach? 700 00:41:12,918 --> 00:41:16,626 I think if North Korea continues to be sincere as they are saying 701 00:41:16,626 --> 00:41:21,417 they are, and they are saying this to China and publicly now, and, 702 00:41:21,417 --> 00:41:25,334 you know, cease and desist with more threats, attempts 703 00:41:25,334 --> 00:41:29,918 to intimidate and missile launches, I think the sense is that 704 00:41:29,918 --> 00:41:33,375 the negotiations will resume, and because we need 705 00:41:33,375 --> 00:41:38,584 to be successful with North Korea, we need to be very, very successful, 706 00:41:38,584 --> 00:41:41,918 I think we can accomplish that. 707 00:41:41,918 --> 00:41:43,501 I absolutely agreed with that. 708 00:41:43,501 --> 00:41:46,375 That's why I asked about the peace treaty in particular. 709 00:41:46,375 --> 00:41:48,375 Maybe it's time for a fresh approach or different set of tries 710 00:41:48,375 --> 00:41:51,626 because it seems like whatever has been tried 711 00:41:51,626 --> 00:41:53,999 before hasn't worked. 712 00:41:53,999 --> 00:41:56,999 JOSEPH DETRANI: Well, this is that's a very fair point. 713 00:41:57,292 --> 00:42:00,209 This is exactly no one wants to go back to talks for the sake 714 00:42:00,209 --> 00:42:02,959 of talks because as we have been talking North 715 00:42:02,959 --> 00:42:06,334 Korea has gone from 6 to 12 nuclear weapons. 716 00:42:06,334 --> 00:42:07,834 We believe they have uranium enrichment 717 00:42:07,834 --> 00:42:09,999 programs fabricating. 718 00:42:09,999 --> 00:42:14,999 We see missile launches and a satellite, the trajectory has gone the other way. 719 00:42:14,999 --> 00:42:16,751 So what we want is not talks for the sake of talks, 720 00:42:16,751 --> 00:42:20,709 but implementation of a program that will lead to success. 721 00:42:20,834 --> 00:42:23,999 And my personal view is I think with the assistance, certainly 722 00:42:23,999 --> 00:42:27,501 the pitch parties coming together, the five countries with North Korea 723 00:42:27,501 --> 00:42:30,417 and China being very, very much involved with North Korea, 724 00:42:30,417 --> 00:42:32,999 I think we will see progress. 725 00:42:36,167 --> 00:42:38,083 Hi. 726 00:42:38,083 --> 00:42:41,999 You compared cyber to chemical weapons and World War I. 727 00:42:41,999 --> 00:42:45,999 What do you see as the parallels there? 728 00:42:45,999 --> 00:42:48,250 JOSEPH DETRANI: No, I wasn't comparing. 729 00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:51,626 What I'm saying is when we saw the devastation of biological weapons, 730 00:42:51,626 --> 00:42:54,584 chemical weapons, the international community rose 731 00:42:54,584 --> 00:42:58,959 up and said, my God, we have to sort of understand this and work together 732 00:42:58,959 --> 00:43:02,459 a community, not countries, but as an international community 733 00:43:02,459 --> 00:43:04,999 globally working together. 734 00:43:04,999 --> 00:43:07,375 And that's why we have these international protocols on the bylaws 735 00:43:07,375 --> 00:43:09,167 of weapons convention, the chemical and 736 00:43:09,167 --> 00:43:11,542 the same thing with nuclear. 737 00:43:11,542 --> 00:43:14,209 This is not a country specific issue. 738 00:43:14,209 --> 00:43:16,083 It's a global international issue. 739 00:43:16,250 --> 00:43:19,334 And I think we all admit, you know, you are the experts, again, cyber 740 00:43:19,334 --> 00:43:21,876 is not a country specific issue. 741 00:43:21,876 --> 00:43:22,918 It's a global issue. 742 00:43:22,918 --> 00:43:26,459 I don't want to speak for people here, but I suspect 743 00:43:26,459 --> 00:43:30,999 the response would be that there is simply too many non state actors 744 00:43:30,999 --> 00:43:35,501 for a massive JOSEPH DETRANI: That's a fair point. 745 00:43:35,501 --> 00:43:37,167 That's why it's a difficult issue. 746 00:43:37,167 --> 00:43:38,417 It's a difficult issue. 747 00:43:38,417 --> 00:43:39,417 It's a challenge. 748 00:43:39,417 --> 00:43:40,999 Okay. 749 00:43:40,999 --> 00:43:41,999 Peace. 750 00:43:45,375 --> 00:43:50,292 JOSEPH DETRANI: Okay, any other positive comments? 751 00:43:51,792 --> 00:43:54,209 (Laughter) Any other good questions? 752 00:43:54,667 --> 00:43:57,083 Actually, no, we need to get the next speaker. 753 00:43:57,083 --> 00:43:59,999 JOSEPH DETRANI: Good luck, and, look, use that energy, 754 00:43:59,999 --> 00:44:02,999 use that expertise and help this government work 755 00:44:02,999 --> 00:44:07,626 with the international community so that we do counter the potential threat, 756 00:44:07,626 --> 00:44:12,167 and use it in a peaceful meaningful way which it is, so you are the experts, 757 00:44:12,167 --> 00:44:14,959 so good luck to all of you.