>> First off, welcome to the dark side of the Internet, I'm Grifter, this is my good friend Meta Cortex, we're from DC 801, based out of Salt Lake City, Utah. We don't often get that reaction, so thank you! So who are we? We're these guys. >> Up here on stage. >> Yeah, up here. That's us. >> Yeah. Better. All right. >> We're going to show you something here that I think it's actually pretty funny. So this is us, we're explorers, we like to wander around in back alleyways and things like that. What's kind of funny is that we're both looking at the exact same thing as you can tell, like, this is in a back alley of I don't even know where in Tokyo, we were just wondering around. >> Shinjuku. >> Is that where we were? >> Yes. >> We were in Shinjuku. I wasn't paying attention apparently. But that's what we like to do, we actually spend a good portion of that trip, and I think it's a good metaphor for most hackers where we would get on a train, and then we'd say let's pick a random number, all right, 6 and we'd get off 6 stops later and just start walking. We have no idea where we're going. I don't speak Japanese, neither does he, we don't read it. We just went because that's how cool shit happens, so that's what we like to do. So I'm Grifter, DEF CON goon. Also, multiple DEF CON speakers, this is my 6th time on stage at DEF CON. Founder of DC 801, way back in the day, I'm old. And the founder of -- or the cofounder of the 801 Labs Hacker Space in Salt Lake City. >> And I'm the same, a little bit, minus the creds. This is my first time speaking at DEF CON, so I'm really excited, a big portion of DC 801. [Applause] >> Helper on the hacker space in Salt Lake City. So if you're ever running through there come check us out and we will give you free booze. >> Like legit, we really will! Okay, so just a quick warning, I know this should go without saying, but we are going to talk about some things that are questionable. Now, who defines what that questionable is, you know, can be argued, but we'll just say, you know, we can't promise you won't be offended by what we talk about. We may talk about drugs, murder-for-hire, hacking, cracking groups, carding, all of the above. And so if that makes you a sad panda, then somebody else would probably fill your seat. >> Who in here is a fan of -- what's that show's name? What is that show's name? So this is a nice little clip from it, theoretically it should work. No audio! Brutal. >> Now we're the sad pandas. >> Let me turn that up a little bit. See if that works. >> Maybe. Maybe, oh! >> Help us audio guy, you're our only hope. It's the USB to the sound card. No, it's a bad cable. >> Please pause while we fix the audio. Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, come on guy, we look like asshats. [Laughter] >> Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. One more time. Nope. Well, that sucks. >> 98% of the Internet, at least that's what they're saying, in search engines where you go to find everything and anything. Narcotics, hackers-for-hire. >> How did you access it? >> Pretty easy. >> Yeah. So. >> Tor is very much better. >> Tor is very much better. What we love about that is they're at work, and dudes like -- >> Just like shift over brother and I'll just jump on like a darknet, like here at the office. It's totally cool, we're going to go check out hackers-for-hire and dark markets and whatnot. >> So am I on the desktop? My audio fails. >> It's really painful not being able to see that screen. >> Not see anything. >> What are we looking at? Desktop? There we go. There we go. Now I'm on my desktop. >> Okay. >> Better? >> Hey! All right. >> So we're going to talk about Tor, connecting to it, using it, onion sites, we'll get into that. Bitcoin and how it works and how to use it, mining Bitcoin a little bit, we're not going to get into that too much. So take it away Meta. >> We just went through these. All right. So finding what you're interested in, going out there and finding, you know, different forums, darknet forums that are various things that you can look up. Not all of them are nefarious, some of them are just places where government censor their citizens, and so it gives them an opportunity to have a platform where they can discuss issues that are relevant to things in their country or problems that they're having in their country without being black bagged in the middle of the night. We will also talk about things like hacker forums, carder forums, things like that. I'll even throw out a couple of ways you can find them, darknet search engines, how to find what it is that you want and marketplaces where you can buy physical things and actually have them, like, dropped shipped to, hopefully not your house, but somewhere where you can pick it up and nobody knows who you are. That's pretty much it. And we'll talk about some OPSEC stuff, tips to help you make you a little more anonymous. >> All right. Tor, I'm assuming most everyone here at DEF CON has heard of it, undertone anyway, it is the onion router, it is a series of routers on the Internet that anonymize your traffic and notice the little warning at the bottom, the NSA will pick you out and put you on a list for searching for it or downloading it. >> And we've been on that list for a long time so we're not really sweating it. Although when we saw the thing where you search for this or downloaded this in the last, like, it was like 3 years and you're on a list. And we're like whoa, we're going to like to the top of the list now, because we're telling everybody about it at DEF CON. >> This is a great diagram about how it actually works. The only thing I do not like about it is the little red an arrow going to Bob that says, oh, it's an encrypted traffic, if you are sending HTTPS through and it will be encrypted on that. So we like to think of Tor a little bit like this. [Music Playing] >> Now it's working. [Laughter] >> You know, we were just jumping through all of those little things. All those little boxy things. That's great. >> I do scream like that every time I connect it though. [Laughter] >> I've got to tell you, it was really annoying, like, while we're making this presentation. So how do you do this? There's a couple different options. You can use the Linux command line or Mac command line, and you can App get it or install binaries for it. And I'm mainly a Linux guy, so you'll see those on the slides. And XETOR, TORRC, are mainly where you do all the configuration for it. What it does is it starts a proxy listener on your local host, you can pinpoint anything to that port and you're running through Tor after its connected. Pretty basic, but even further to make it even more basic, they create the Tor browser bundle, it's a simple download, you download it, install it, run the EXE, it'll connect the Tor, launch a Firefox browser and that whole browser is running over Tor. It's pretty nice. It will come with some additional plug-ins on it as well that we'll cover. So more in depth, we'll run through these really quick because of demos, there's a whole bunch of information on configuring it, and let's see if we can connect to it live. The demo Gods usually have been hating on me today, so we'll try it. >> You realize you have to scream like a lunatic now when you connect that. Wooo! [Laughter] >> There we are, that's it. This browser is configured to use Tor. I clicked on it and we are now theoretically anonymous. OP delivers! Right? All right. Sweet! I mean, you are going to have to see that video. That's an old screen shot, I just updated this today. That didn't pop up just now after I updated, but that shows you connecting to the Tor network on older versions now. We don't need to play this video because it worked. >> All right. Once you connect, you will see with the Tor browser, you will see it'll have a couple of plug-ins already installed. The Tor options will be how you configure and use Tor. No script which is important, use it, and HTTPS anywhere. Which we'll try to enforce encryption through everything. It's very important to have even outside of Tor bundle, the Tor browser bundle. Another way to do it is Tails. Tails is a live bootable distro. It's Debian-based and it will try and enforce absolutely everything you do to run through Tor. It will fight you to write anything to the disk so you will not leave any traces and you will stay totally anonymous. It's great. It works really well right out of the box and comes with a whole bunch of software pre-installed, opening PGP, pigeon OTR, key pass, some important things, but true crypts and unfortunately, we're going to have to -- unfortunately, we're going to have to pour one out. And Tails will land you on another list as well. That's what it looks like once you actually boot it up in the normal mode. Standard Debian desktop, nothing fun, but you can also force it to go to XP mode. [Laughter] >> So, you know, you're sitting in a coffee shop and you don't want anybody to know you're doing some evil hacks, no one is going to question an XP desktop. [Laughter] >> All right. We're connected to Tor. Sweet! What can we do with this? We can do a whole bunch of fun stuff. I like tunneling other restricted networks, that was fun, staying anonymous, you know, that whole bullet list that you guys see up there. Where the fun really comes in, in my opinion, is the Tor hidden services, this turns Tor into a darknet, these are sites that live exclusively in the Tor network and you cannot reach them outside of the Tor network, and you can't really trace down who owns them unless you have it offset. Most websites there will use the dot onion address to reach them. Oh, hey, we have a pin in there, we said put a pin in it and we didn't. >> Yeah. I mean, we put a pin in it. I don't know what the fuck the pin is for. [Laughter] >> There was a bullet point we wanted to make, we will move on. [Laughter] >> Our bad! >> Hidden services is -- you can see exactly how it works with some of the Tor documentation, it's kind of complex way out of the scope of what we're going to talk about today. So moving on, finding hidden services. This is currently some of the hardest things -- barriers to entry when you're getting into Tor. The notorious one is the hidden Wiki. Most people like to use that. I have found at times it is extremely out of date. Most of the links in there are broken or dead. But you do find some gems. Tor find is another one, Tor search. Grams, I actually really like it. It is dedicated to searching darknet marketplaces. So you actually type something in, it will search and index all of those marketplaces and show you what you want across all the different ones. Deep web links and Reddit, note, those are not in Tor. You will be tracked going to those because they are not dot onion addresses, but good nonetheless for links, and word of mouth. A lot of people, you know, spread onion sites by word of mouth. And links that they send their friends. There are some fun sites that are in Tor that I think are of interest that I just wanted to put in here for no good reason, Pirate Bay is on there. Also, keep in mind, if you're downloading Torents that may be illegal, run it through Tor. Just because you download Torent through, Pirate Bay does not mean you're staying anonymous. My favorite, which was actually down as of a little bit ago, the assassination market, it is a crowd-funded assassination website. Now, regardless of whether it's actually legitimate or not, I doubt it is. You pay Bitcoin in, and you say I want somebody to kill this person, and everybody starts putting Bitcoins in around it and whoever proves, however you do that, that you assassinated this person gets all the Bitcoins. There were some fun names on that list. Unfortunately, we can't pull it up, but Rent-A-Hacker is another good one. You will penetrate anything you want for any amount of Bitcoin. We might pull that one up later through the lulls. Here are some good forums you can go to, TCF is pretty much the biggest carding forum you'll come across that I've seen. It does require a $50 entry to get on to it. They did that because of spammers getting on there, so once you get in, you can buy credit card numbers, identities, all of that, a lot of fun, super cheap, we'll pull that up later. Intel exchange, a lot of people link to that one, it's mainly trolling on illuminati stuff, and the deep web and how to get to Miranda's web, which is fun. Hack BB is kind of another forum, they do things like run this sketchy executable and you will get backdoored to anything you want. Some marketplaces, most people are interested in actually buying stuff like this. You can check out the darknet markets, we actually have a listing on the side of the page with all the current markets, their statuses, whether or not somebody thinks they've been compromised, the quality of them. Super up to date. Most people use Agora though, version 2.0. Agora is a decent one and my favorite, actually, Evolution, we have purchased some stuff through Evolution which we will show you later. So let's demo some of that. This should work. So I'm going to grab the silk road URL. Pop in the Tor browser. It could take a second. Hey, it works! So I created this. Nope. Haha, sucker! By the time you get on to DEF CON stage and you can't remember your password! Maybe not. I'm an idiot. Let's see if we can create one real quick. If I can remember my user name. I am a terrible speller. What is that password? Password 1, somebody just yelled it out. 1111, in case anyone cares. Oh, come on! [Laughter] >> This is terrible. [Laughter] >> What he doesn't know is that I changed his password, and this is actually a psychological experiment about stress. I'll be speaking about it later in the sky talk! [Laughter] >> Oh, restricted words. You can't have DEF CON in the name apparently. [Laughter] >> I wouldn't be surprised if someone is trying to register that right now, and it kicked me out. Hooray! [Applause] >> So what was that? >> He's saying is that how someone new would get an account? >> Yes, you just sign up from here. >> Yeah, that was a good demo, actually, perfect. Silk Road. As you can see on the left, a lot of people like buying their drugs through here, but we have a whole bunch of other fun stuff. We're more interested in the electronics and the hacker stuff, so let's go ahead and hit up electronics and we'll just see what they have today, it's always changing, we never know what they have. Oh, Wi-Fi hacking, sweet! SIM cards. Virtual Honey puffs, that's probably a book. Some Amazon gift certificates maybe, USB drives, a lot of anonymous reference, hey, a drone, that looks like fun. Hackers underground handbook. >> Oh, that sounds legit! >> Order me up one of those! >> So as you can see, there's various things on here, some of it is worthwhile than other things. You're going to have to sift through things to find what you actually want. On a lot of these sites we found that when you do find something that you're interested in, as long as the seller has been around for a little while, you actually get what they're selling, like so it's kind of nice, like, if you think you are going to be doing some back alley deal and you're not going to get what you're looking for and then it shows up and you're surprised but your also pretty happy. [Laughter] >> If you're not willing to lose the Bitcoin, don't spend the Bitcoin, though, I would say that. >> This one looks fun, the neuroscience kit, anybody actually going to try that. >> Yeah, sign me up for that shit. [Laughter] >> Plug stuff into my brain. All right. That's a good run through that. Continuing on, ha! You don't need a video, that worked. >> Almost. Almost needed a video. >> Carding sites, those are fun, you know, buy people's identities, credit card information, numbers, date of births, Social Security numbers at times. As I said earlier, TCF, the biggest one requires the $50, depending on, you know, the actual amount changes due to bit coins inflation or deflation. But it's always about 50 bucks. CC, another fun one, it kind of looks kind of sketchy to kind of buy something off of there, so I don't know how legit it is, but it's really good to actually see the prices of some of this contact material. So let's do that now. Yes. >> Who knows how to take a picture because I want a picture of us up here? >> We're so egotistical. >> I'm going to hand my camera to a stranger! >> Oh, that one went down. [Laughter] >> Because that one's down, we may have to do TCF which I'm not happy about, and I'm burning an identity doing so. No, I don't have to log in. I think I do have to see prices. Oh, well. I amousted. >> Terrible! >> Oh, that's just how I look, nevermind. >> All right. So let's check out some -- let's see if we can buy some stolen identities on here. Virtual carding, physical carding -- >> We do not condone the theft of identities nor the trading thereof, but what is very interesting about this is that we learned what your identity is actually worth to someone else. So try to keep that in mind when he starts pulling up the cost to purchase some of these things. You know, you hear about it in the media all the time, identity theft is rampant, and like how many millions of credit card numbers are stolen from different retailers every day, this is what they're brokering for and it's pretty telling. >> I've never actually seen it this low. $1 each. You're worth $1! [Laughter] >> Let that sink in! >> So here we go. Some of the stuff that they will actually give you a credit card number expiration day, CVV, name on the card, country, state, city, address, and zip. $6. And if you wanted European, that's 10. Everybody hates us! Say again? >> What are the chances that you're just not being ripped off? >> The chances are actually pretty good that it's going to work because they actually are reviewed, these sellers, there is a review system similar to Amazon where people will say like I actually got this or I had this and it worked for an X amount of time, so like we highly recommend you guys going out and doing this. >> Looking, looking guys, holy crap! Like, damn it! >> I forgot where I was for a second. Going out and looking, again, it's really interesting from a research perspective to go out and say, like, what are we trading at today, that kind of thing. You're like oh, the market is low today. But it's interesting to find out how these people think, how they work, what they're collecting, why they're collecting it, and when you start talking to them about what they're selling, you know, they're fairly open about it because they know they're anonymous, too. >> Sweet, moving on. Again, no video. But here are some fun things that I really like to look at. We can buy some fake IDs, what about a driver's license or even at the bottom, fake passports, what if you need to disappear to do some sketchy shit. [Laughter] >> Yeah. And not playing on Tor correctly. So these are fun. What I have heard is actually that our fake ID is legit and is super high quality from all of the confirmed vendors in there, so you don't have to go through Tor to get some of this. >> Go through Tor, they'll give you some of this! [Applause] >> We've got nothing! >> Thanks! >> Oh. >> Focus, so while we're pulling up fake ID sites, we're going to take some shots. [Laughter] >> Here you go. Sorry, I don't drink. Once again, Salt Lake City. [Laughter] >> But everybody does a shot! That means all of you, go ahead. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> Right. >> Look for a new speaker. >> Thank you! [Applause] >> That was really good, it had like the nicest blend of hydrogen and oxygen with it, it seemed like it almost doubled hydrogen. >> Oh, it's a 2014. >> That's a good year. >> Thank you, sir! >> Don't call me sir! >> I'm sorry, sir! [Laughter] >> So here's some fake passports you can buy from all of these wonderful countries. Let's look at the USA! USA! All right. We'll do that. Actually we found that the USA passports are the most expensive with all of our looking around and things like that, it seems like something about them makes them very expensive. >> That's weird, I wonder why that is? >> I will not confirm nor deny any activities. Because it's full of freedom. So that's like the scan of one of those fake passports, 28 pages. >> Clear holographic, laminate. It should look legit. We've seen some people actually take pictures of thiers and they'll have all of the UV stuff in it which is awesome. Basically, you send them all the information you want them to put in there and a head shot and you get a passport theoretically. >> Yeah, we cannot confirm nor deny the quality of these documents but they're amazing. [Laughter] >> So there you go. Passports are a little pricey, $1,000 per for a U.S. Passport. Let's see, I like Japan, let's look at that. [Laughter] >> They like Japan, too. >> Yeah! $700 for a Japanese passport. Not too terrible, if you really need to get away and actually use it. Not bad at all. >> Could you list them all by price so you can see what the cheapest one is? >> There was somewhere that we could do that. Let me -- let's see if we can pull this up. Yeah. They took that off. That's not coming up. I think this is the one that I like. Nope. No, that will work. So these are driver's licenses, so $200 for a driver's license. There we go, there's a picture of some of the UV stuff they can do. Let's try the last one. Oh, Lenovo power stuff, I hate you. That's what I get for using a work laptop at DEF CON! Oh, now it's on video, I don't know. No? Is that the one we already went to? And the middle one? I don't know. We're just pulling them all up. This is the one I like a lot! Free shipping! [Laughter] >> What a bargain! >> No. >> I'll get to work on that. Let's see what it says. I can't remember how to get there. Pricing. There we go. >> There you go. >> So U.S. 700 Euro and then you can get driver's license, ID cards, you can bundle them all together. The thing I like about this vendor is for more money down at the bottom, he will actually stamp it with other countries stamps to make it look more legit. >> It looks like you legitimately traveled with that passport, you can rough it up a little bit and make it look like it's been in use. You can fly under the radar a little bit better, spend less time, I can tell you from using my legitimate passport that when I had one that was nearly full versus having a brand-new one, they spend a lot more time looking at the brand-new one. >> Who was that? [Laughter] >> So this is where we were going to demo gram, but most of those -- since we wrote these sites the passport stuff has fallen off of Grams and it's mainly drugs. So next slide. No video for you. So what can you do with all passports? I like to think of myself a little bit like this. (Car engine rumbling) [Music Playing] >> Sorry. >> Just enjoy! >> Yeah. >> Yeah, like that! [Laughter] >> That's what I'd do. >> Sweet. So now we have seen all of this awesome, fun stuff that we can actually get, how do we do it, you say? Bitcoin, obviously, most people on the Internet try to use it. They do not accept DEF coin as far as I'm aware of, that may change. Basically, Bitcoin transfers money into a wallet and when you buy anything, your Bitcoin goes into an escrow account, and when you get your item, the escrow releases the Bitcoin into the seller. And then you have them ship it to a location and we'll cover more details of shipping and the all tech stuff. Yeah, more on Bitcoin, mainly for reference, so get these slides wherever they're distributed, we'll keep going. More Bitcoin stuff, we're continuing. All right. But Bitcoin tumbling, that's another way to keep Bitcoin a little more anonymous. Basically, you throw money into a pot while everybody else is throwing into a pot and then they pay you back in certain small increments here and there so it makes it really hard to track, what goes in, what goes out, who it's going to, who it's coming from, things like that. If you're doing super questionable stuff, some people argue against tumbling, it doesn't hurt, you get most of your Bitcoin back minus a small tumbling fee. So here, we'll talk about some considerations with Tor to help make it a little more secure over some of the stuff. Correlation attacks, those are probably the biggest threat to Tor as far as I'm aware of. Currently, if someone owns an entry node and exit node, they can map that connection back through and see who originally came in to and where it's originally going to. There was a small semi-correlation attack that was talked about in the Tor blog a couple of days ago, where there were malicious relay nodes injecting headers into the packets to be able to track some of the darknet sites. They have patched that and kicked those nodes off the network, as of a week or two ago. Some browser exploits can identify you. If there is an issue in the JavaScript engine like there has been before, JavaScript engine in Firefox that will allow it to ping back a server, not over the Tor network. That'll identify you real quick. Some considerations of Bitcoin to make them a little more anonymous, but keep in mind the entire block chain for Bitcoin is public. You can track absolutely every transaction that's ever happened over the Bitcoin network. Tumblers help against that but a lot of people transfer large amounts of money, millions of small increments all over the place so it just becomes impossible for any one person to track all of it. Here are some slides. Some OpSec stuff. >> There you go. >> Um, let's see, so we're going to talk about some things to just be aware of, and behaviors that you can do to try to make sure that you remain anonymous. So stay updated on the Tor blog, obviously, making sure that finding out if there's any vulnerabilities, there was recently a large vulnerability in Tails, things like that, like making sure you're looking to see whether or not the tools that you're using are kept up to date, what features are coming, what features are leaving, things like that. So, you know, as Matt has stated earlier, keeping you're Tor browser updated and stay updated on the status of markets, and use the subreddit for that. Again, the subreddit itself is not on Tor so you're on the clear net there, so just be aware of whatever activities you're doing, but browse around and see what's going on there. Browser segregation. Obviously, don't log on to Facebook in the same, you know, browser that you're using to get on and browse dark markets on Tor, that doesn't make a lot of sense now, does it? >> No. >> Using a VM specifically for your Tor connections or Tails, this here is my Tails laptop. I think one of you guys were talking about Tails. I booted it up into Tails real quickly into the Windows 8 mode, so again, sitting in a coffee shop you don't look like you're doing something nefarious. These -- this laptop also does not have a hard drive in it, it literally has the Tails disk and that's it. So you can also boot to like a flash drive. I actually have Tails in my pocket. I do have Tails in my pocket and it's actually DC 101 flash drive from 2 years ago, so represent! And then, like you were saying here, even better, use something like this, like have something that's dedicated specifically for, you know, what you're doing on Tor or just using Tails, that kind of thing. It's just another layer of security, and it gives you I guess a warm fuzzy feeling inside. >> Not only that but if you're host OS is compromised, you can see everything your VMs are doing. >> Indeed. So actually, getting items, so you can see up here we do have a couple of things, so we have purchased some stuff, this was the safest things we thought we could bring. So don't send it to your house. Does that make a lot of sense there? We got that clear? Do not send it to your house, okay? So like you're on a dark market and you're like oh, yeah, dude, yeah, sweet, drop ship that bad boy, oh, by the way, here's my address. And it's like, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be anonymous if you're giving away your address. But send it to a P.O. Box or a UPS store, so we would recommend also, do we recommend this? If you wanted to do this, where's my lawyer? If you wanted to do something like, let's say, hypothetically, you were going to get a P.O. box or a UPS box, order a fake ID and take that fake ID, burn the box and go and open up another box with said fake ID, now you have another layer in between you and your real identity, and space and that's a good thing. So you might want to do that, if you have access to an abandoned house or building or something like that to drop things to. Also swell -- >> Not right next to your house. >> Not right next to your house, not the neighbors or whatever, but if you happen to be lucky enough to live in a neighborhood with a lot of crack houses, fantastic! So never open your questionable content anywhere that you can be visible to others. That should go without saying, but it's like, oh, sweet, here's my, you know -- you know, I'm not even going to say, I'll leave that to you guys, get nasty. So wait until you get home. Try waiting a week or two weeks to pick something up, if you're anxious to get something, then you're going to be more likely to get caught doing whatever it is that you decide to do. If somebody is waiting for you to receive something, or there's an idea that maybe you are going to get something that you shouldn't have, you know, most agencies are not going to sit around for a week or two weeks total for you to pick something up. Also, if you want, walk in, open up the box, maybe, look at it, oh, it's there, or don't even do that. Just go up and say, did I get a package? Yes, you did. Okay, great and leave. Come back another time and pick up whatever it is that you need to pick up sometime later, pick a random day and go back then. Even more, don't reuse identities. >> I like that one. >> Yeah, don't reuse passwords, and disposable e-mails are available here. >> We already talked about this, but I already talked about this but opening the mailbox and using the fake ID. >> We bought some stuff. There's some stuff. This is our baby monitor. So it runs over a GSM network and you put a SIM card in it, you can call the number that is associated with the SIM card and it will listen to the room. So if you want to listen to your baby in the nursery, then you can call the number and now you have a baby monitor that works at any range. >> And it's small. >> Yeah. >> And it will auto dial you back. When it reaches a certain level of decibels it'll call you because it knows there's activity. So that's the mini baby monitor, that's what it looked like when we bought it. That's reviewing the order there. Yeah, that baby monitor looks great. And then here is the confirmation e-mail that was sent. So it's just saying, hey, this is when you're expected to get it. It actually looks pretty nice and professional to me. >> And UPS tracking. >> Yeah. UPS tracking, it's on its way. All right. We are just about out of time, so we're going to leave you with some parting thoughts. >> So clearly, everything we're talking about here is a little bit -- we've had some fun with it, we've had some laughs, a little tongue in cheek and some of it falls into a gray area. You decide whether it stays in the gray area or you take it further than that. Also, where you live or where you're located can change whether or not that gray area is no longer a gray area. So be aware of that, and stay anonymous. Like anything, darknets can be used for good and evil. The good side, again, if you live under an oppressive government then this is a fantastic tool for you to be able to communicate with people just like you who don't like what's happening in your country, and you can try to get together and maybe cause some change. If you're interested in what is going on in the world and you want to talk to people who are in these situations, darknets are good for things like that. Don't take the media's word for it, get out there and read it straight from people's mouths. >> Straight from their keys. >> Straight from their keys. So we have legit purposes. They're not just for shady shit, but there's a lot of shady shit! [Laughter] >> And in our view, Meta Cortex and I believe this is the future of how we will communicate, it must be the future of how we communicate. We can't trust our own governments, we think we live in the land of the free and we don't any more. It's sad, but a reality. So start learning this stuff and start being those pioneers who help everybody else, figure out how to be anonymous, encrypt their traffic, and stay safe on the Internet! Thank you! [Applause] >> If you're ever in Salt Lake City, look us up, seriously. We love taking hackers to dinner! Oh, there are some appendixes on the slide as well.