[00:08.770 --> 00:15.810]  Hello, everybody. Welcome to DEF CON 30's DEF CON Groups VR. I'm your next presenter, X-Ray,
[00:15.810 --> 00:20.530]  and I'll be presenting how to start and run a group. So if you've ever wanted to start and
[00:20.530 --> 00:23.570]  run your own group, whether it's a DEF CON group or any other kind of group,
[00:23.570 --> 00:28.570]  we're going to give you the secret sauce. So let me get to my slides here and I'll be right back.
[00:36.340 --> 00:41.880]  Okay. Can you all hear me okay? I assume so. If you're in the back,
[00:41.880 --> 00:47.020]  raise your hand if you can't hear me. Yeah, that always works. Okay. My name is X-Ray.
[00:48.440 --> 00:54.960]  I run DEF CON Group DC404 in Atlanta, Georgia. I've been running that since 2013.
[00:55.260 --> 01:00.380]  I'm one of the co-founders of Atlanta Lock Sport. I've also been an affiliates director of the
[01:00.380 --> 01:05.020]  International Jugglers Association, which is in charge of all the affiliate chapters around the
[01:05.020 --> 01:10.020]  world, kind of like DEF CON groups for juggling. I've also been assistant director of the Tampa
[01:10.020 --> 01:14.320]  Jugglers Club down in Tampa Bay, Florida. Great club if you ever want to go there.
[01:14.320 --> 01:18.160]  I'm also a member of the Atlanta Jugglers Association. We hold an annual juggling
[01:18.720 --> 01:22.860]  festival. Now, you're probably wondering what has juggling got to do with DEF CON groups?
[01:22.860 --> 01:28.400]  Well, the secret sauce is all groups work the same because all groups have a common denominator.
[01:28.400 --> 01:34.200]  It's called people. So while working at Georgia Tech, I was head of cybersecurity for the College
[01:34.200 --> 01:38.680]  of Computing. I sponsored the student hacking and cybersecurity organization called Grayhat
[01:38.680 --> 01:43.760]  and their CTF team, the Mad Hatters. I'm also a regular presenter at security and hacking
[01:43.760 --> 01:49.340]  conferences and co-developer of Network King of the Hill CTF, which, by the way, is a fabulous
[01:49.340 --> 01:54.000]  way of getting your numbers up in your meetings is to host a CTF. So if any of you would like
[01:54.000 --> 01:57.940]  to learn how to do that, contact me on Discord. I'll be happy to walk you through it. It's quite
[01:57.940 --> 02:04.920]  simple. Network King of the Hill CTF is designed for a lazy administrator. As the original
[02:04.920 --> 02:09.380]  developer, that's exactly what he said about it. And it's really easy to set up. Thank you,
[02:09.380 --> 02:14.660]  Charmander. Charmander is one of the people I showed how to do it. And if you talk to him later,
[02:14.660 --> 02:22.750]  he'll tell you just how easy it was to do. Okay, so what we're going to cover in this presentation
[02:22.750 --> 02:27.890]  are the fundamental rules for any group. And these are things that apply regardless of the topic.
[02:28.430 --> 02:32.450]  One of the basic issues is who's in charge of the group. That's something that you have to
[02:32.450 --> 02:36.970]  understand in order to understand the dynamics of the group. Because if you don't handle that,
[02:36.970 --> 02:42.650]  it can cause a group to fall apart rather quickly. Another thing we'll discuss is why to meet,
[02:42.650 --> 02:46.970]  what you're meeting about, and how you figure out what that is, and who your target audience is.
[02:47.130 --> 02:51.830]  And one of the biggest problems that most groups face is finding a place to meet and ironing out
[02:51.830 --> 02:57.310]  that situation. Another issue you'll run into as you start putting a group together is what
[02:57.310 --> 03:01.450]  equipment you're going to use. Should I buy the equipment myself? Should the group own the
[03:01.450 --> 03:06.610]  equipment? Can we borrow the equipment? We'll talk about those issues. Do we do presentations?
[03:06.610 --> 03:10.730]  Some groups have presenters come in. DC404, every month we have a presenter come in
[03:10.730 --> 03:15.850]  and do presentations for us to the group. Hold on a second.
[03:19.670 --> 03:23.670]  Sorry, I had a spam call. You've got to love spammers, they're so persistent.
[03:24.070 --> 03:29.790]  So presentations, is your group going to have presentations or not? It's not required.
[03:29.790 --> 03:33.570]  Are they going to be formal? They don't have to be formal. We'll discuss all of that.
[03:33.710 --> 03:37.150]  Are there going to be any activities in your meetings? Those are things like, are you going
[03:37.150 --> 03:40.930]  to have a lockpick village? You're going to have capture the flag, soldering station for people
[03:40.930 --> 03:45.390]  who are desoldered. Those are some of those ideas. What about governance? This is one that people
[03:45.390 --> 03:52.370]  commonly want to know about is, should we be a 5013C? We'll get into that and what that entails
[03:52.370 --> 03:56.690]  and why you would or would not want to do that. And one of the biggest issues you're going to
[03:56.690 --> 04:00.710]  stumble across is money. What happens if we start getting donations? We have dues,
[04:00.710 --> 04:05.550]  we have things like that. How do we deal with money? We'll talk about that. Swag, that's things
[04:05.550 --> 04:11.430]  like t-shirts, cups, all those sorts of things with your logo on it. We'll talk about getting
[04:11.430 --> 04:17.590]  your logo, creating swag, how you can do that, ways you can do that. We'll also talk about
[04:17.590 --> 04:21.990]  advertising your group, where to advertise it and the most effective ways to advertise it.
[04:21.990 --> 04:27.630]  So let's see. Next slide here is fundamental rules. Now, these are rules that apply across
[04:27.630 --> 04:34.230]  all groups regardless. And one of them is the most important rule you could ever have in any group.
[04:34.230 --> 04:40.650]  And it's something that nobody ever expects. So one is you do not have to be the most skilled
[04:40.650 --> 04:47.670]  expert in the room, in the group to run it. But there are things you have to do to hold the group
[04:47.670 --> 04:51.410]  together. And that's the thing that's actually important. And you don't even have to be the
[04:51.410 --> 04:55.570]  best at that. You just have to show up and do the number one thing, and that's be consistent.
[04:55.570 --> 05:00.850]  I cannot stress being consistent enough. That means if you have a meeting space,
[05:00.850 --> 05:05.030]  you're the first one to get there, the last one to leave. You're going to have to get there early
[05:05.630 --> 05:09.170]  because there's going to be people who show up five minutes before the meeting time,
[05:09.170 --> 05:16.510]  no one's there, they leave. So if you're there, they'll stay. Or they'll show up and say,
[05:16.510 --> 05:20.010]  oh, I just wanted to know there's a meeting. I can't really come today, but I'll try back
[05:20.010 --> 05:24.730]  next time. So if they see that somebody is there, they'll show up again. They'll also
[05:24.730 --> 05:28.850]  show up five minutes after the event is over and say, oh, you guys are still, you guys are really
[05:28.850 --> 05:33.690]  here. Oh, I didn't know if you'd really be here. And I waited to the last minute. I'm sorry I'm
[05:33.690 --> 05:41.670]  late. And you're there and you talk to them. Be consistent. If no one shows up to the meeting,
[05:41.670 --> 05:47.530]  fine, watch Netflix on your phone. But be consistent, show up early, leave late. If you
[05:47.530 --> 05:52.890]  can't make it, absolutely make sure somebody is there to cover for you or notify everybody that
[05:52.890 --> 05:58.910]  you're not going to be able to make it. But if you can at all help it, always be there or make
[05:58.910 --> 06:04.890]  sure somebody is there. Being consistent is the absolute number one rule, hands down.
[06:05.130 --> 06:09.350]  The other thing is when you're starting a group, you have to be patient. It doesn't happen
[06:09.350 --> 06:16.350]  overnight. Now to quote something out of a movie we've probably all seen, the code is more of what
[06:16.350 --> 06:22.390]  you'd call guidelines than actual rules. So that means none of this is hard and fast. It's a matter
[06:22.390 --> 06:29.890]  of who shows up, how compliant they are as far as showing up. Some people won't show up on time.
[06:29.890 --> 06:33.730]  You can set them on fire, they won't show up on time. It depends on what kind of group you get
[06:33.730 --> 06:38.670]  as to how hard and fast you have to hold these basic rules. But they're true in any group. Number
[06:38.670 --> 06:44.570]  one, always remember, be consistent. Now the second one is who's in charge. Since you started the
[06:44.570 --> 06:49.050]  group, you think you're in charge. Yeah, that's not true. What I'm going to cover next are the
[06:49.050 --> 06:53.470]  basics. I'll get into governance of the group, which is not the same thing as who is in charge
[06:54.030 --> 06:59.810]  later in the talk. The group is owned by the members. It's not by the person running the group.
[07:00.970 --> 07:05.490]  That's a hard thing to swallow, but that's the way it is. The purpose of the group is for the
[07:05.490 --> 07:13.050]  group. It's not for me. So although I kind of facilitate DC404, I see myself as more of a host
[07:13.050 --> 07:17.070]  and a servant than I do as somebody who's running the group, because it's not my group.
[07:18.450 --> 07:22.490]  If you make changes to what the group is going to do or how you're going to do things,
[07:22.490 --> 07:29.030]  you do that through consensus. You have to get everybody's input. Now, in the end, people are
[07:29.030 --> 07:34.350]  going to look at you to make the final decision. That's just the way human nature works. They'll
[07:34.350 --> 07:40.050]  make what they want known, and then you can say, well, the consensus of the group seems to be this.
[07:40.050 --> 07:44.390]  You all concur, and they'll say, yeah, some will answer, some won't, and then that becomes the
[07:44.390 --> 07:50.130]  decision. But decisions are not set in stone. You can always change something. The whole idea is
[07:50.130 --> 07:53.850]  we're hackers. We try things. The things that work, we keep. The things that don't work,
[07:53.850 --> 07:58.130]  we get rid of. Feel free to throw away things that don't work. It's okay.
[07:58.910 --> 08:02.970]  Now, one thing that is really hard to swallow, and this happens from time to time,
[08:02.970 --> 08:08.310]  is you're going to start a group that has a particular culture to it. And that group's
[08:08.310 --> 08:12.910]  culture will change and go in a direction that you're not willing to follow. And when that
[08:12.910 --> 08:17.870]  happens, you're just going to have to gracefully bow out, leave it to somebody else to run,
[08:17.870 --> 08:23.290]  do a nice turnover, be friendly, and do a nice turnover, turn the group over to somebody else,
[08:23.290 --> 08:28.930]  and go start another group or join a different group. That happens occasionally. It's not often,
[08:28.930 --> 08:34.010]  but it does happen. So don't be surprised if it does. It's not the end of the world. If you
[08:34.010 --> 08:39.630]  started one group, you can start another. It's not that big a deal. Okay, now the next thing is
[08:39.630 --> 08:47.710]  why meet? Well, the reason you meet is very simple. We want to talk to other people,
[08:47.710 --> 08:51.190]  just like we're here. We want to talk and hang out with other people who are like-minded into
[08:51.190 --> 08:56.530]  similar things. When we say like-minded, hacking covers a lot of things. Hacking is actually the
[08:56.530 --> 09:02.390]  art of discovering what something is capable of that the designer did not intend, and determining
[09:02.390 --> 09:06.490]  whether that's helping me or hurting me. And if it's hurting me, I have to defend against it,
[09:06.490 --> 09:11.170]  or help others defend against it. And if it's help, well, then we're going to tell everybody.
[09:11.230 --> 09:15.330]  Now, as an example of that, if there's anybody here, because we allow all skill levels at
[09:15.330 --> 09:19.810]  DEF CON meetings, if anybody here is new and doesn't think that they're a hacker,
[09:19.810 --> 09:23.990]  I beg to differ, because you've probably opened a can of paint using a screwdriver.
[09:24.810 --> 09:28.490]  That's not the intended purpose of a screwdriver. They actually make a tool
[09:28.490 --> 09:33.030]  specifically for opening cans of paint. You can get it at Home Depot and Lowe's.
[09:33.310 --> 09:37.530]  But you don't have one. You use a screwdriver like the rest of us. That's hacking. Hacking
[09:37.530 --> 09:43.910]  is a mindset that applies to all disciplines, from golf, to playing in a concert, to hacking
[09:43.910 --> 09:49.370]  networks and security systems, and social engineering, which we were talking about earlier.
[09:49.550 --> 09:55.650]  So one of the key things, as the person who's hosting the group, is be approachable. A lot
[09:55.650 --> 09:59.890]  people are going to see about the group online. And when they get there, they're going to want to
[09:59.890 --> 10:07.770]  talk to you. So be available and talk to people. Be friendly. Engage with them. If you ask them
[10:07.770 --> 10:11.510]  what they're interested in and point out other people in the room who might be interested.
[10:11.510 --> 10:18.610]  Also point out, and this is so important, that all the people are at the meeting because they
[10:18.610 --> 10:24.550]  want to talk to other people. So they should not feel bashful or shy about just walking up to a
[10:24.550 --> 10:29.330]  table, sitting down, and just start talking to people. It's okay. That's what we're there for.
[10:29.330 --> 10:33.410]  But people forget that and assume that they're not good enough. They're not skilled enough. I'm
[10:33.690 --> 10:39.290]  a noob. Yeah, well, I got to break it to you. I've been doing this since the dawn of the abacus.
[10:39.390 --> 10:47.250]  And no matter whose backyard I go into, I'm an idiot. So no matter where you go, there's always
[10:47.250 --> 10:53.650]  something you don't know. So that's just the way it is. And explain to them that just being a noob
[10:53.650 --> 10:58.430]  means they're a noob in my area of expertise, or that guy's area of expertise, but in their area
[10:58.430 --> 11:05.490]  of expertise, I'm an idiot. Just remind them of that. So be excited. Now, when I say excited,
[11:05.490 --> 11:11.390]  I don't mean you're jumping around like a crazy person at a kid's party. Okay, that's not what I
[11:11.390 --> 11:17.310]  mean by be excited. You show your excitement by your enthusiasm for the subject you're talking
[11:17.310 --> 11:21.330]  about. You don't even have to talk fast. You don't have to talk excitedly. You don't have to wave
[11:21.330 --> 11:29.290]  your hands around. But you'll find that that excitement translates to others, and they like
[11:29.290 --> 11:34.330]  being around excited people. And more importantly, get them excited about what they're excited about,
[11:34.330 --> 11:38.450]  not necessarily what you're excited about. That's one of the other key factors of getting a group
[11:38.450 --> 11:45.510]  to work. Encourage people to ask the group questions for help. So for instance, if somebody's got a
[11:45.510 --> 11:48.150]  project they're working on, or something they're working on, they're stuck, they don't know where
[11:48.150 --> 11:52.630]  to go, or, hey, I just want to get started hacking, or I want, how do I get, how do I start
[11:52.730 --> 11:59.370]  a group or any question like that? Encourage them to ask the question. And the more cross
[11:59.370 --> 12:05.010]  communications and networking you do, the better it works out. The group is going to act like a
[12:05.010 --> 12:11.670]  springboard for members to participate in events outside of the organization. Examples of that are
[12:11.670 --> 12:18.410]  we had this discussion within DC404. I believe the DEF CON group in Vegas, or one of the DEF CON
[12:18.410 --> 12:23.390]  groups, actually has their own hacker space. And that's where they hold their DEF CON meeting,
[12:23.390 --> 12:28.530]  their DEF CON group meetings, and they run a hacker space. We discussed that within DC404
[12:28.530 --> 12:36.890]  and decided that no, DC404, we wanted to encourage our members to go out into the world and do things
[12:36.890 --> 12:42.650]  as a DC404 person in the world. So some of the DC404 members went off and started a hacker space
[12:42.650 --> 12:48.830]  called Freeside Atlanta, still going strong. Many of the members have since moved away,
[12:48.830 --> 12:55.570]  but that group is still continuing because it wasn't a DC404 thing. It was a hacker space,
[12:55.570 --> 13:01.350]  and it works really well. I go, for instance, I go to the hacker and maker spaces here in Atlanta
[13:02.110 --> 13:08.610]  and teach them basic capture the flag techniques. I'll do a day of training on how to do web
[13:08.610 --> 13:13.570]  application security and using an attack proxy and all sorts of things. And the next day we'll
[13:13.570 --> 13:19.130]  run a CTF forum. And that introduces them to these concepts and encourages them to do that.
[13:19.130 --> 13:23.210]  And then we help them set up their own permanent CTF infrastructure.
[13:36.080 --> 13:43.820]  Okay. So now, who's your target audience? First off, be specific. If you just say,
[13:43.820 --> 13:47.440]  we hang out and talk about stuff, you won't get people. You have to tell them what you're about,
[13:47.440 --> 13:50.900]  and you have to give a description of it. That can be kind of difficult.
[14:08.800 --> 14:15.820]  Why is this not working? Okay. There we go. Sorry for that interruption. Be flexible.
[14:17.340 --> 14:23.360]  Okay. Post requirements about your membership, whatever it is. For instance, DC404 group,
[14:23.360 --> 14:27.420]  we're a DEF CON group. The DEF CON group, we have a webpage where we have
[14:27.420 --> 14:31.340]  our information and our charter on it. And one of the things it specifically says
[14:31.340 --> 14:37.300]  in our meeting post about our meetings is that anybody, any age, any skill level is
[14:38.020 --> 14:43.800]  allowed to come. So we highly encourage that attendance. And then when they get there,
[14:43.800 --> 14:47.920]  we tell them what our group's about at every meeting and encourage that kind of sharing.
[14:48.280 --> 14:53.680]  Now, let's talk about the DEF CON groups for a minute, specifically, since we are... hopefully,
[14:53.680 --> 14:58.640]  you're going to go out and start a DEF CON group. Specifically in the DEF CON charter,
[14:58.640 --> 15:06.540]  it's any age and any skill level. Also, DEF CON frowns on calling yourself a hacking group. Now,
[15:06.540 --> 15:13.560]  despite what was said today, we are hackers. We hack in the sense of the traditional idea
[15:13.560 --> 15:17.380]  of discovering what something's capable of as opposed to what it was designed to do.
[15:17.380 --> 15:25.380]  But we do not tolerate illegal practices. We regularly give talks on ethics. And one of the
[15:25.380 --> 15:31.740]  things that we found is a great benefit with CTFs and teaching people how to build their own
[15:32.380 --> 15:38.600]  training lab at home with little or no resources, very low resources, usually with thrown away
[15:38.600 --> 15:43.860]  computers that somebody set at the curb, so that they can train in a safe environment and do the
[15:43.860 --> 15:47.980]  things that a black cat would do, but do it in a way that doesn't get them arrested. And then they
[15:47.980 --> 15:52.180]  can come back and demonstrate it and share with the rest of the group. So it's a whole lot of fun.
[15:52.180 --> 15:57.440]  Of course, then we run a CTF so they can practice it in real time. I can't stress having a CTF,
[15:57.440 --> 16:08.600]  it's so much fun. Now, another thing about DEF CON groups, if you go read the DEF CON charter
[16:09.420 --> 16:15.000]  on the FAQ right now, there used to be something in there that DEF CON groups are not allowed to
[16:15.800 --> 16:20.020]  require any kind of fees or dues to attend the meetings, that the meetings must be free and
[16:20.020 --> 16:27.600]  open to the public. So that's missing from the FAQ. In putting this presentation together,
[16:27.600 --> 16:32.300]  we found that missing and notified them. So they'll be adding it back to the FAQ.
[16:33.300 --> 16:37.600]  Okay, now, now you've got an idea, you got a target audience, you know what you want to do,
[16:37.600 --> 16:42.000]  you know, you got an idea, you're excited about it, you've got a few friends are going to help
[16:42.000 --> 16:48.320]  you out even. What do you mean? That is a huge problem. So let me give you a list of some of
[16:48.320 --> 16:54.220]  the things that are the most common things people look for. One is free meeting space and parking.
[16:54.220 --> 17:01.660]  Now, that's not an absolute rule. For a while, DC 404 met in a comedy club. And the only parking
[17:01.660 --> 17:08.220]  was there that was nearby was across the street and there was a pay parking, you could park a
[17:08.220 --> 17:12.840]  couple of blocks away for free on the street and then walk there. But free parking was not readily
[17:12.840 --> 17:18.700]  available. We now meet at manuals tavern. Thank you, manuals, for hosting us for free.
[17:18.980 --> 17:23.080]  In parking, they give us free meeting space. That's a big bonus.
[17:23.580 --> 17:28.440]  I recommend you if you look for a space, it's going to handle 20 to 50.
[17:29.760 --> 17:34.460]  Now, you're probably not going to start out that big. So it's okay to find a place that's smaller
[17:34.460 --> 17:39.000]  than that to start with. But don't be surprised, you have to start finding bigger places. If you
[17:39.000 --> 17:44.320]  follow what we're telling you today, it'll grow. And it may take a while, but it will grow.
[17:45.160 --> 17:49.800]  Find a place that's centrally located to the audience that you want to meet. Now, that's a
[17:49.800 --> 17:56.280]  problem in the Atlanta area. Because the metro area is so large, we have roughly five DC groups
[17:56.280 --> 18:01.060]  in our area, scattered all over the place. Now, what's really interesting is people would think
[18:01.060 --> 18:07.640]  that that's competition. It's not. It actually generates more excitement because people go to
[18:07.640 --> 18:13.120]  multiple meetings because they're just so excited about it. So that's not really a problem. And we
[18:13.120 --> 18:17.040]  all communicate on the same Discord server. We each have our own channel, but we all communicate
[18:17.040 --> 18:22.960]  together. And so there's a lot of excitement for DEF CON group activity in the area. And we all
[18:22.960 --> 18:30.240]  help each other out with what they're doing. So they have centrally located in the area of the
[18:30.240 --> 18:33.560]  city that they're trying to make it easier for people to travel to.
[18:49.390 --> 18:55.390]  Okay. Wow, we're having some fun today with some social engineering. Hey, that's to be expected,
[18:55.390 --> 19:01.810]  right? We're a hacking conference. Centrally located to the group that you're trying to meet
[19:01.810 --> 19:08.870]  with. Now, that can be a challenge. Like here in Atlanta, during rush hour, and especially when we
[19:08.870 --> 19:13.750]  meet at Manuel's Tavern, that's down in the central part of the city. It's not uncommon for
[19:13.750 --> 19:18.710]  them to have some major citywide event that makes getting to Manuel's Tavern rather difficult at
[19:18.710 --> 19:25.110]  times. So that becomes an issue in picking where your location is. But for us, that worked out
[19:25.110 --> 19:29.510]  actually pretty well for a majority of the people in Atlanta. But for the other groups, they're far
[19:29.510 --> 19:34.070]  outlying. Some of them are an hour's drive from where we are. And at rush hour, you just can't
[19:34.070 --> 19:38.810]  get there from here type of problem. So find something that's located centrally in your group,
[19:38.810 --> 19:43.750]  preferably not too noisy. Because if you want to do presentations, you're going to need someplace
[19:43.750 --> 19:55.090]  quiet. However, that's not necessarily hard. They have two different rooms. One is kind of
[19:55.090 --> 20:00.590]  off by itself. And it's rather quiet. And we can do presentations with no problem.
[20:00.590 --> 20:05.370]  The other one is called the Eagle's Nest. And it is extremely noisy, because it's right next
[20:05.370 --> 20:10.930]  to their main dining area. And they have, quote, a soundproofing curtain that they pull across
[20:10.930 --> 20:16.390]  that does absolutely nothing to the sound. But that was supposedly the intent when they remodeled.
[20:17.050 --> 20:20.870]  Hey, it's free space. We make the best of it. We improvise. We adapt to overcome.
[20:21.090 --> 20:26.270]  But that could be a bit of a challenge sometimes. That's why we use a PA system,
[20:26.270 --> 20:30.330]  so that we can talk over that. Another one that's kind of important, depending on what you intend to
[20:30.330 --> 20:35.470]  what kind of activities you're going to have at your meetings is free internet. If they have Wi-Fi,
[20:35.470 --> 20:39.750]  that's highly advisable, especially if you want to run something like Capture the Flag.
[20:40.170 --> 20:45.130]  Now, another thing you're going to want to look for is, do they have any facilities for doing
[20:45.130 --> 20:50.150]  presentations, assuming you want to do them? Not all of our DC groups do presentations at
[20:50.150 --> 20:54.690]  their meetings. A lot of them just get together and hang out and talk about whatever they're
[20:54.690 --> 21:03.950]  working on. Ours, DC404, we promote people doing presentations. In fact, DC404 members
[21:03.950 --> 21:09.670]  regularly present at DEF CON and other conferences. So we always want to have a live presentation.
[21:09.670 --> 21:16.670]  So we make sure that wherever we meet has a PA system. And if not, we provide our own. We have
[21:16.670 --> 21:22.090]  one of the members who will bring one with him, and we can use their PA system. Look for a free
[21:22.090 --> 21:29.970]  projector and a screen, or a large screen TV also works rather well. Some cases, we found places that
[21:29.970 --> 21:35.010]  they have a projector, but they charge for the use of the projector. But the use of the screen
[21:35.010 --> 21:41.270]  was free. No problem. We brought our own projector. Now, I know what you're thinking. I
[21:41.270 --> 21:45.610]  remember thinking this, too. I can't afford to buy a projector. Well, WARC would let me check
[21:45.610 --> 21:50.430]  one out. I told them what it was for, and they said, oh, yes, we're supported doing that. Sure,
[21:50.430 --> 21:54.310]  check one out. And so I was able to check out a projector from WARC and bring it with me, and we
[21:54.310 --> 21:59.650]  can do presentations that way. Or if you are a member of a church, a lot of times a church has
[21:59.790 --> 22:03.330]  a projector, and you can borrow it from your church. That's an example. So ask your friends,
[22:03.330 --> 22:08.550]  ask around, see what you can find. You don't always have to buy it in order to provide it.
[22:09.890 --> 22:18.030]  Oops. Okay. Another thing you look for is whether or not they have food and adult beverages,
[22:18.030 --> 22:22.930]  meaning beer, wine, that sort of thing. If they have food and they have beer and wine,
[22:22.930 --> 22:28.610]  that goes a whole long ways to helping the group congeal together and work together.
[22:28.750 --> 22:33.010]  People can come, they can have lunch, or depending on what time of day you're doing it,
[22:33.010 --> 22:37.790]  they can have lunch, have a beer, talk to their friends. It really makes a huge difference.
[22:37.810 --> 22:43.030]  So DC404 always looks for a place that has food and adult beverages.
[22:43.650 --> 22:50.270]  One of the big issues is will they provide separate checks? Ask first, up front. What
[22:50.270 --> 22:54.550]  you don't want is having a meeting where people come and go, and at the end of the meeting,
[22:54.550 --> 22:59.710]  they walk up with one big bill. You don't know who ordered what, half the people have already left.
[22:59.710 --> 23:04.550]  You don't want that. You want separate checks. Also make sure to make an announcement to the
[23:04.550 --> 23:09.810]  group. Don't forget to pay your tab. We don't want to hunt you down later. It's just a friendly
[23:09.810 --> 23:16.070]  reminder. It also helps if they accept reservations for your meeting space. We've had
[23:16.070 --> 23:21.710]  places where we said, hey, we'd like to reserve this room. They said, well, we really don't do
[23:21.710 --> 23:26.450]  reservations. And we get there and our big room had three people and having a conversation,
[23:26.450 --> 23:30.930]  and we were kicked off to some side room where there wasn't enough room. So make sure that they
[23:30.930 --> 23:36.670]  accept reservations if you want to make sure you get a space. Places you can go look for a meeting
[23:36.670 --> 23:41.370]  place are things like public libraries. Now, public libraries are a good place to start.
[23:42.190 --> 23:47.490]  Problems are they don't typically allow food or drinks. They usually require that meetings be
[23:47.490 --> 23:52.190]  open to the public. Now, for DC 404 meetings, that's not a problem for F-Con meetings because
[23:52.190 --> 23:57.530]  they are supposed to be open to the public. But if your group wants to have a closed meeting,
[23:57.530 --> 24:01.530]  that's not going to work for you because it has to be open to the public. Another place that people
[24:01.530 --> 24:06.250]  often don't think about are churches. Churches often provide free parking and meeting space.
[24:06.250 --> 24:10.670]  So if any of the members of your group are a member of a church, talk to them and see if
[24:10.670 --> 24:14.190]  they've got meeting space at their church. Quite often, they even have Wi-Fi as well
[24:14.190 --> 24:19.490]  and a projector and a screen. Works out really good. In some cases, they have a kitchen,
[24:19.490 --> 24:23.310]  and as long as you're willing to clean the kitchen up afterwards, you can make or bring
[24:23.310 --> 24:27.530]  your own food or have your pizza brought in, whatever. Works out pretty well.
[24:28.070 --> 24:33.610]  Pubs and restaurants. Those are another good place to look for. Quite often, they do support
[24:33.610 --> 24:39.150]  meeting space and they try to host events. Now, places that I don't recommend going are things
[24:39.150 --> 24:45.150]  like sports bars. We've had instances in the past where a sports bar had a space that would work
[24:45.150 --> 24:50.610]  perfectly. We told them that we can make sure that that room is completely full and that they
[24:50.610 --> 24:55.690]  have standing room only with our group being large enough and easily meet any requirements
[24:55.690 --> 25:01.730]  for the amount of money they want you to spend to use their space. However, they said that no,
[25:01.730 --> 25:06.990]  primary clientele is the people coming here for sports and if our room is tied up and they can't
[25:06.990 --> 25:11.710]  get in, well, then it gives us a bad name and they won't come back. So we said, oh, sorry,
[25:11.710 --> 25:16.430]  we can't use your space then. That's the way it goes. Some places are going to want to charge you
[25:16.430 --> 25:21.430]  rent for the space and they want a guaranteed amount on the bill. In other words, they want
[25:21.430 --> 25:26.770]  you to spend so much money and if not, there's a fixed amount you're going to have to pay if you
[25:26.770 --> 25:30.990]  don't if you don't order enough food and beer and that sort of thing. I would try to avoid those
[25:30.990 --> 25:38.870]  places. It's hard. When Manuals Tavern closed for renovations, it took us a great deal of time
[25:38.870 --> 25:45.190]  to find another place that could host us and it wasn't free, but because we were a group
[25:45.190 --> 25:50.710]  open to the public, they gave us a discount and one of the members went to his company and the
[25:50.710 --> 25:57.330]  company paid for a year's worth of meeting space for us until Manuals finished the renovations. So
[25:57.330 --> 26:05.690]  you can find ways. Be inventive. Be hackers, basically. Another place to look, and this is
[26:05.690 --> 26:11.650]  one that people often forget, are universities, schools, and community centers, especially
[26:11.650 --> 26:18.350]  community centers. Quite often they have free space to use or go to another organization and
[26:18.350 --> 26:24.110]  ask them if you can use their space. An example is the Atlanta Junglers Association has a space
[26:24.110 --> 26:28.390]  in the Little Five Points Community Center that we pay rent on and that's where we have our
[26:28.390 --> 26:33.110]  meetings. Well, they'll make that space available to other groups and the parking's free.
[26:34.550 --> 26:39.330]  Now, in those cases, we usually charge the groups, but depending on what the group is and
[26:39.330 --> 26:43.050]  when they want to meet and what it's for, especially if members of the AJA want to be
[26:43.050 --> 26:47.550]  present, the Atlanta Junglers Association, like myself, want to be present, they'll often waive
[26:47.550 --> 26:53.850]  the fee. So that's a place you can look. Local high schools and elementary schools can sometimes
[26:53.850 --> 26:58.190]  have a space available to have meetings, especially if they're open to the public,
[26:58.190 --> 27:04.270]  and especially if the kids can come, which DEFCON groups can. Universities, usually at a university,
[27:05.050 --> 27:08.010]  depends on the university, you're going to have to have somebody who's at the university
[27:08.010 --> 27:14.710]  sponsor the event. Now, sponsor doesn't mean they pay for anything. It just means they say,
[27:14.710 --> 27:18.850]  yeah, I vouch for them. And then you'll be able to have a meeting in one of their meeting spaces.
[27:18.870 --> 27:23.170]  Now, meeting spaces quite often allow food and drink, but you'll have to provide it yourself.
[27:23.170 --> 27:27.370]  But they will allow that. And they'll have all the stuff like projectors and parking and all that.
[27:27.370 --> 27:32.590]  Now, some schools charge for parking. Georgia Tech, there's no free parking anywhere on the
[27:32.590 --> 27:39.510]  campus. Other schools, like Kennesaw State, they have free parking everywhere. So those are some
[27:39.510 --> 27:47.110]  examples. Now, one of the things you really have to learn to do is be flexible, okay? You can,
[27:47.110 --> 27:52.590]  for instance, look for, if everything else fails, see if any of the members of your group,
[27:52.590 --> 27:59.450]  if their company can provide meeting space. That happens quite often where a company wants
[27:59.450 --> 28:03.990]  to sponsor a meeting space. And we've had companies, for some of the groups I'm a member of,
[28:03.990 --> 28:08.790]  we've had the company provide the meeting space and pay for pizza for all the meetings.
[28:09.390 --> 28:20.330]  In the case of 768, I think it is, DC group up in Hartersville, their meetings up there,
[28:20.330 --> 28:26.390]  there's a member who comes and pays for the first $100 of the bill for whatever they get,
[28:26.390 --> 28:32.630]  just pays for every meeting. And they got free space in the basement of a restaurant they go to.
[28:32.870 --> 28:39.690]  So that is a great benefit if you can get a sponsor, but it's not required.
[28:40.510 --> 28:45.450]  Now, one thing I cannot stress enough about meeting spaces is you're going to have to be
[28:45.450 --> 28:50.690]  flexible with the people who provide the space. For instance, because of COVID,
[28:50.690 --> 28:56.650]  we're doing hybrid meetings. We have some online and some in person. And as a result of that,
[28:57.390 --> 29:04.810]  we've had the problem of not enough people showing up to merit the larger space that
[29:04.810 --> 29:10.590]  they have there. So they moved us to the EagleSense, which is smaller, but a lot noisier.
[29:10.590 --> 29:15.790]  Now, we could try to get upset about that, but no, what we do is a vendor has been extraordinarily
[29:15.790 --> 29:20.190]  gracious to us in providing free space and helping us and working with us with our group
[29:20.190 --> 29:26.230]  through thick and thin. They've been there for us all the way through COVID, in fact. So we really,
[29:26.230 --> 29:31.130]  really are flexible with them and work with them as ever possible. They'll come to us and say,
[29:31.130 --> 29:40.570]  hey, I know you reserved that space, but we've got this wedding coming in. Could you guys,
[29:40.570 --> 29:46.810]  could you stop right at four? I say, sure, no problem. Or even stop early,
[29:46.810 --> 29:51.170]  whatever their requirements are, we try to be as flexible as possible with them.
[29:51.170 --> 29:57.070]  By doing that and being nice, it's amazing what the vendors will do or the people who provide
[29:57.070 --> 30:03.010]  the space will do to help you out and become the preferential person that they'll deal with.
[30:03.010 --> 30:10.790]  You have a question? Somebody raised their hand over there. Oh, guess not. Okay.
[30:12.810 --> 30:16.830]  Okay, now, where do you get the equipment, things like projectors and things like that? Well,
[30:16.830 --> 30:21.730]  one we already talked about, you can buy, borrow or buy it. Now, one of the questions you're going
[30:21.730 --> 30:26.730]  to have to answer if you buy equipment, things like projectors, screens, PA systems, wireless
[30:26.730 --> 30:33.570]  microphones, is who owns it? In my case, I paid for it all personally out of my pocket. It's my
[30:33.570 --> 30:41.090]  equipment because I wanted to have a meeting and the people who started DC404, which is Dr. Chaos
[30:41.090 --> 30:47.410]  and Beth, went on the road and gave me the bag of holding and said, here, hold this. And I ended up
[30:47.410 --> 30:52.770]  being the host for DC404 meetings. Well, when they left, they were the ones who brought projectors
[30:52.770 --> 30:56.590]  and screens and mics and that sort of thing. So I said, oh, I guess that's me now. Well,
[30:56.590 --> 31:01.650]  at first, I started borrowing stuff. I signed it out from work. I told them what I wanted it for.
[31:01.790 --> 31:05.350]  And they said, sure, no problem. And I'd borrow from work. And over time, I collected enough
[31:05.970 --> 31:11.290]  equipment and got stuff together to do that. Now, if you do buy equipment, you're going to
[31:11.290 --> 31:16.930]  have to decide, is it owned personally or is it owned by the group? If it's owned by the group,
[31:16.930 --> 31:21.050]  where do you store it? How do you make sure it ends up at every meeting? You'll have someone
[31:21.050 --> 31:24.870]  who says, oh, I'll store it at my house. And then they go on vacation and don't tell you. And you
[31:24.870 --> 31:28.050]  go to the meeting, you don't have equipment, you can't get it, it's locked in their garage.
[31:28.110 --> 31:34.490]  So you have to make plans for that sort of problem. And you have to handle them in advance.
[31:34.630 --> 31:38.890]  Usually, whoever the host of the meeting is, is going to have to iron those issues out and make
[31:38.890 --> 31:44.250]  sure that gets handled. Quite often, you're going to find that the only person who cares that much
[31:44.250 --> 31:50.510]  about the meeting is the host. You started the group, you should care. However, over time,
[31:50.510 --> 31:54.370]  you're going to have more people come along and help out. Charmander is here today. He's
[31:54.370 --> 32:00.790]  there in the back left corner of the stands. He has been a great help. Commager is another one
[32:00.790 --> 32:04.690]  that comes along. We've got about eight people who are our core group who come up all the time
[32:04.690 --> 32:08.110]  and help out. Smokin' T-Bird is another one. They'll step in at a moment's notice. I don't
[32:08.110 --> 32:12.010]  even have to ask them. It's more like, get out of the way, let me help. It's awesome when people
[32:12.010 --> 32:17.290]  start coming along. It'll take time, but you'll get there. Now, if you get a projector, I recommend
[32:17.470 --> 32:21.230]  a short throw projector. That's one that can sit like two, three feet from the wall and project
[32:21.410 --> 32:25.390]  a full screen on the wall. Sometimes you're limited in space and you won't be able to set
[32:25.390 --> 32:30.490]  your projector 15, 20 feet back so you can get an image big enough. So I recommend a short throw
[32:30.490 --> 32:36.030]  projector. Another thing you can look at is in order to set the projector on something, it's
[32:36.030 --> 32:41.170]  quite often you get to the room, the tables have got people on them, there's condiments, there's
[32:41.170 --> 32:46.570]  plates of food, there's water, there's coffee, no place to put your projector. So the solution
[32:46.570 --> 32:52.190]  for that is make a flat mounting plate for your projector that the projector bolts, it's just a
[32:52.190 --> 32:57.250]  piece of wood, your projector bolts to it, and it's got a quarter 20 screw mount on it to screw onto
[32:57.250 --> 33:02.370]  the top of a tripod. That allows you to just set a tripod on the floor, set a couple of chairs around
[33:02.370 --> 33:07.630]  so people trip over the chairs on your projector, and set it up so it projects on the screen and
[33:07.630 --> 33:12.170]  aligns. It's totally portable, you can put it in any space, just works. And if you don't need it,
[33:12.170 --> 33:18.870]  you can put it on a table, you just put it on a table. If you need a portable projector screen,
[33:18.870 --> 33:22.470]  one that's excellent, gives you a wide screen, it's very small, very light and portable,
[33:22.470 --> 33:29.250]  is made by Epson called the Alc-Acolade Duet. I have one of those, I actually saw it because
[33:29.250 --> 33:32.790]  I needed to borrow one for a conference, I borrowed it from work, and I was so impressed
[33:32.790 --> 33:37.490]  by this piece of equipment, I went and bought one. They're absolutely awesome portable screen.
[33:38.010 --> 33:43.730]  Okay, wireless microphones. If you get wireless mics, you're going to need a handheld and a
[33:43.730 --> 33:48.750]  lavalier for the speaker. Handhelds for the host, and also walking around having people ask questions,
[33:48.750 --> 33:55.370]  lavaliers for the speaker. You can get PA speakers that have a built-in amplifier,
[33:55.370 --> 34:00.970]  so it's an all-in-one unit. You can just take the two speakers apart, set them up,
[34:00.970 --> 34:04.050]  either stand or set them on the ground, or put them on stands, sometimes they come with stands,
[34:04.050 --> 34:09.690]  and connect your wife, your microphones to it, and go to town. It'll have a mixer built into the
[34:09.690 --> 34:15.530]  back. That's the cheapest way to go if you buy your own PA. Now for us, Manuals has a built-in
[34:15.530 --> 34:22.190]  PA system, so we don't have to have it, but when we were meeting at our alternate location,
[34:22.190 --> 34:27.510]  it's the 57th Fighter Squadron, when they were doing renovations, we provided our own PA,
[34:27.510 --> 34:36.590]  one of our members brought it. For now, is equipment required? Absolutely not. DC-770,
[34:36.590 --> 34:43.150]  which meets the basements of Jefferson's, doesn't have any equipment, they don't have any speakers,
[34:43.150 --> 34:46.530]  sometimes I'll have a speaker, but they're grouped so long, if he just stands up and talks,
[34:46.530 --> 34:51.930]  no slides, nothing. Now that's highly encouraged, because that's the whole point of being there,
[34:51.930 --> 34:58.170]  we get together and talk about stuff. Well, let's talk about presenters and speakers.
[34:58.630 --> 35:02.890]  They're not required, and it depends on your group mission and your audience whether you
[35:02.890 --> 35:08.050]  want to have speakers. DC-404 members speak at hacking and information security conferences,
[35:08.050 --> 35:14.010]  so we use our meetings so that they can do beta runs of their presentations. When we do that,
[35:14.010 --> 35:17.630]  we don't record them or anything, so if you want to stay, you have to be there,
[35:18.230 --> 35:23.950]  but we do those beta runs there. We also use our meetings to encourage new members
[35:23.950 --> 35:29.770]  to learn speaking skills, so they can stand up in front of everybody and um and on, oh my gosh, and
[35:30.670 --> 35:36.070]  all the usual things that they have to learn to get around in public speaking. We give them that
[35:36.070 --> 35:40.690]  opportunity to practice those skills there in front of a friendly audience, and also to learn
[35:40.690 --> 35:46.970]  this as a skill that they can use in their profession, whatever that may be. It's a valuable
[35:46.970 --> 35:52.610]  skill, so we encourage everybody to learn how to present at our meetings, but it's not required,
[35:52.610 --> 35:55.110]  but you can decide whether you want to do that or not.
[35:56.370 --> 36:00.650]  Okay, what kind of activities do you have at your meeting? What is it that gets people excited? Well,
[36:01.070 --> 36:04.970]  this is where it gets a little interesting, because we discovered this kind of by accident
[36:04.970 --> 36:13.430]  in DC-404. At juggling groups, we have juggling. We're there to juggle. Everybody brings their
[36:13.430 --> 36:19.510]  own props, usually enough props for them and somebody else to juggle together, at least them
[36:19.510 --> 36:23.310]  and one other person. That's typically people who want to pass objects at the juggling club
[36:23.310 --> 36:27.970]  will bring enough objects for them and one other person, because the other person might not have
[36:27.970 --> 36:34.650]  brought enough of the right kind or anything at all for that matter. So, plan with that in mind.
[36:34.650 --> 36:41.990]  If, for instance, we host a Network King of the Hill CTF. Now, this is a CTF that's very,
[36:41.990 --> 36:48.390]  GitHub.com, NetCoff. That's November Echo Tango, Kilo Oscar Tango Hotel. Net,
[36:48.390 --> 36:54.390]  N-E-T-K-O-T-H, Network King of the Hill. If you go to that GitHub page, it explains what it's about.
[36:54.950 --> 37:01.430]  And if you also go to NetCoff.org, there's more information there as well. It'll explain how to
[37:01.430 --> 37:06.510]  set up and run the CTF. If anybody's interested in doing one of these, feel free to contact me.
[37:06.510 --> 37:10.590]  My contact information is the end of the presentation. I'll go over it. I'm on the
[37:10.590 --> 37:14.790]  Discord for the DEF CON groups. You can also get a hold of me there. You can also go to
[37:14.790 --> 37:21.590]  DC404.org and connect through the mailing list or our DEF CON groups. There's an invite there
[37:21.590 --> 37:27.170]  on the email to our DEF CON, our Discord for Atlanta Cybersecurity Engineers, where DC404
[37:27.170 --> 37:33.170]  has a channel. So, connect with me and I'll happily help you get set up and working your own
[37:33.790 --> 37:39.870]  capture the flag. I cannot stress enough how exciting this was for the group.
[37:41.270 --> 37:44.850]  Part of the reason, as you think about it, we come to DEF CON, we hear about all these wonderful
[37:44.850 --> 37:49.890]  things you can do and things you can try, but most of them, if practiced in the wild,
[37:49.890 --> 37:57.250]  would unfortunately get you arrested. We teach you how to set up. The CTF gives you an avenue
[37:57.250 --> 38:01.670]  to practice these skills in a competitive environment. And when I say competitive,
[38:01.670 --> 38:06.150]  it's a friendly competitive environment because of the way King of the Hill works. I'm not going
[38:06.150 --> 38:10.270]  to go into the mechanics of King of the Hill right now, but it's a really, really fun thing.
[38:10.270 --> 38:14.390]  In fact, ask some of the people here who are from DC404. I see Charmander over there,
[38:14.390 --> 38:18.830]  for instance. Ask some of our members what Network King of the Hill is like.
[38:18.990 --> 38:24.690]  They'll tell you how exciting it is. And it is whoever hosts the capture the flag is actually
[38:24.850 --> 38:30.650]  a live admin of the event. So, you're acting as a live blue team against people who are part of
[38:30.650 --> 38:35.910]  the challenge. It's a whole lot of fun to both admin it as well as participate in it.
[38:35.910 --> 38:41.390]  We also have a lockpicking village. That also happened by accident. Here's the thing. I like
[38:41.390 --> 38:46.050]  lockpicking. I learned it in the Navy way back in the seventies, when you couldn't buy picks,
[38:46.050 --> 38:55.070]  you had to make your own. And I just liked it. So, I went to a B-Sides and at the B-Sides was
[38:55.290 --> 38:59.650]  a lockpick village run by Tool. And they had a lockpick workstation, which was nothing more
[38:59.650 --> 39:06.510]  than two pieces of two by six with some deadbolts that you mount in your front door of your house,
[39:06.510 --> 39:11.830]  mounted in it, and you could try to pick them. And I went, this is awesome. And Tool was selling
[39:11.830 --> 39:17.830]  this very rudimentary set of lockpick tools. And I said, oh my goodness, my lockpick's broken.
[39:17.830 --> 39:22.510]  This is great. I can buy a set. I bought it. I was very excited. So, I went home and made my
[39:22.510 --> 39:26.850]  own lockpick workstation, started getting a DC 404 means because I'm interested in lockpicking.
[39:27.490 --> 39:32.910]  Lo and behold, other people tried it. Then all of a sudden people said, oh, there's people here
[39:32.910 --> 39:37.610]  interested in lockpicking. I'm interested in lockpicking too. Next thing we know,
[39:37.610 --> 39:42.590]  Spoken Keyboard shows up and he is... I thought I was into lockpicking until I met him.
[39:42.590 --> 39:47.030]  He shows up with an entire village of equipment and sets up a village every time. So, he and I
[39:47.030 --> 39:52.510]  together co-founded Atlanta Locksport. And now Atlanta Locksport has their meetings inside the
[39:53.050 --> 40:00.810]  404 meetings and hosts Electric Village at our meetings. This has spilled out all over the place
[40:00.810 --> 40:05.650]  because people who come to the DC 404 meetings also hear about the other DEF CON groups in the
[40:05.650 --> 40:11.250]  area. They also hear about Atlanta 2600. So, all of a sudden, we said, the guy who runs 2600 is
[40:11.250 --> 40:16.890]  the DC 404 member. He starts running the cap to the flag at 2600. All of a sudden, we'd go from
[40:16.890 --> 40:22.890]  five people sitting in the food court to 35 to 40 people sitting in the food court. And,
[40:22.890 --> 40:26.210]  oh, what do you know, they start bringing their locks too. So, now we're sitting in the middle
[40:26.210 --> 40:34.930]  of the food court at Lenox Mall, running a CTF and having a lockpick village. So, yes,
[40:34.930 --> 40:40.170]  it will explode like crazy if you give people some way to vent all this experience and knowledge
[40:40.170 --> 40:44.110]  you're getting, especially in DEF CON groups going online and listening to these talks. They
[40:44.110 --> 40:51.110]  can actually do it for real in a safe, legal environment. That's really important because,
[40:51.110 --> 40:54.830]  you know, I kind of get to like you guys and it's really a bummer when I try to send you
[40:54.830 --> 40:59.330]  cookies in jail and they come through just a box of crumbs. That's terrible. Okay. So,
[40:59.330 --> 41:03.550]  I'd rather just sit down and eat dinner with you and drink a beer or something. That's a
[41:03.550 --> 41:11.010]  whole lot more fun. Another thing that started was one of the members came in to DC 404 and said,
[41:11.510 --> 41:17.830]  I've got a bunch of stuff that I no longer need. They upgraded some stuff in their home lab.
[41:17.830 --> 41:23.210]  They have some technical books that they no longer need because that was the first edition. They
[41:23.210 --> 41:27.350]  have a second edition now. They said, could we bring that and give it away at the meeting?
[41:27.350 --> 41:31.730]  We said, yeah, sure. So, they brought a big plastic bin with this stuff. Well, then everybody
[41:31.730 --> 41:36.230]  else started bringing in stuff and putting it in the bin. And then people would go from all
[41:36.230 --> 41:42.110]  meetings in Atlanta, all the other DC groups, they'll bring the bin, the giveaway bin to all
[41:42.110 --> 41:46.070]  the other groups. And you put stuff in, you don't want, you take stuff out. You want things like
[41:46.070 --> 41:49.930]  swag, stickers, you don't know what to do with it. You got from some other conference, you don't
[41:49.930 --> 41:54.130]  really want, you put them in the bin. All kinds of fun stuff comes out of there. I've seen people
[41:54.130 --> 41:57.890]  give away Raspberry Pis because they upgraded, got a new one, they put a Raspberry Pi in there.
[41:57.930 --> 42:03.490]  All kinds of fun stuff. That's another thing. But posters, books, hardware. I've had people put
[42:03.490 --> 42:13.250]  computers in the bin, laptops, all kinds of stuff. Now, another thing you can do is when you go to a
[42:13.250 --> 42:18.630]  conference, say like DEF CON for instance, there's a bunch of DC404 people at DEF CON. Well, actually,
[42:18.750 --> 42:26.430]  there's a bunch of people from all the DEF CON groups in Atlanta at DEF CON. So, DC404 set up a
[42:27.370 --> 42:32.970]  Google chat channel. And if you want to coordinate with other people at the event to go out to dinner,
[42:32.970 --> 42:38.390]  to go to talks as a group, those sort of things, everybody can chat, they can use it on their phone,
[42:38.390 --> 42:42.490]  they can use it on their computer. And what's really fun about that is people like myself who
[42:42.490 --> 42:47.010]  can't actually make it to the meeting, I can follow along with my friends that are at DEF CON
[42:47.010 --> 42:52.330]  and hear what's going on and be excited with them. So, that's one way you can keep the excitement
[42:52.330 --> 42:58.870]  going when people aren't even there. Another thing, and this is one of our members brought this,
[42:58.870 --> 43:04.010]  is he wanted to teach people how to solder. So, he brings a soldering station with him
[43:04.010 --> 43:08.570]  and sits down and teaches people how to do soldering. Another member designs,
[43:08.570 --> 43:13.090]  if you're familiar with the shitty add-ons that go on the badge, like the DEF CON badge,
[43:13.090 --> 43:17.610]  that has a little connector on it. So, a lot of cons have, it's a standard now, this little
[43:17.610 --> 43:23.070]  connector, you can plug on an additional daughter card onto the main board. And those are called
[43:23.070 --> 43:27.530]  shitty add-ons. There's an actual standard for that interface now, well, the standards, I guess,
[43:27.530 --> 43:33.990]  with hackers. And there's people in our group who design and build those and bring in prototypes for
[43:33.990 --> 43:40.050]  people to try out and play with. DC404 is part of SWAG. One of the members went out and had made
[43:40.050 --> 43:47.890]  some add-on with the DC404 logo and everything else. And we sold them to people and they were
[43:47.890 --> 43:52.730]  able to take them with them to DEF CON and trade them for other add-ons. A whole lot of fun. So,
[43:52.730 --> 43:57.130]  those are the kind of activities you can have that just gets everybody excited and gets everybody on
[43:57.130 --> 44:03.590]  board. Now, let's talk about governance. Governance is where it gets serious. That's
[44:04.370 --> 44:09.890]  the overarching plan of how we're going to govern how people meet. Whenever you get people together,
[44:09.890 --> 44:16.050]  they automatically start forming hierarchies and forming ways of organizing the situation.
[44:16.290 --> 44:22.110]  It all depends on what it is your group needs in order to meet that is going to determine
[44:22.110 --> 44:26.150]  what kind of governance you're going to use. Now, the first type we'll talk about is what's
[44:26.150 --> 44:33.150]  called anarchistic. There's no leader. There's no one who's officially even a host. There's the
[44:33.150 --> 44:36.770]  people who tend to have been going there the longest and people will ask them questions
[44:36.770 --> 44:40.550]  simply because they've been going there the longest. Think of this as people who show up
[44:40.550 --> 44:46.010]  at the same location based on a history of the meeting. An example would be a pickup basketball
[44:46.010 --> 44:50.930]  game at the city public court. It's only every Saturday you go out there, there's people playing
[44:50.930 --> 44:55.010]  basketball on the court. You walk on, there's nobody in charge. You want to play, you play.
[44:55.010 --> 45:00.050]  If you don't want to play, you sit by the sidelines, talk, chat, whatever. It's just completely
[45:00.050 --> 45:07.670]  anarchistic. There's nothing formal, just show up, hang out, and talk. Think of the rules as like
[45:07.670 --> 45:12.890]  kids agreeing on how to play a game. There's no rules on how to do that. You just kind of sit down
[45:12.890 --> 45:18.030]  and kind of give and take and figure out what you're going to do just by who showed up.
[45:18.650 --> 45:23.850]  That's how that kind of works. Now, you'd think that a long term that would never ever work.
[45:23.850 --> 45:30.530]  I beg to differ. The MIT Juggling Club, which is one of the oldest clubs probably in our country,
[45:31.210 --> 45:37.450]  has been meeting that way since their inception. Basically, their organizational principle is this.
[45:37.510 --> 45:44.110]  There's juggling outside this one building, and if it's raining, we go inside to the atrium inside.
[45:45.730 --> 45:51.490]  Those are the rules. And it happens like every Tuesday or something, whatever the day of the
[45:51.490 --> 45:57.470]  meeting is. Why is it like that? Because that's the way it's always been. And people just show up.
[45:57.470 --> 46:04.610]  And it's been one of the longest running groups in the country. It's amazing. I marvel at their
[46:04.610 --> 46:10.530]  ability to organize despite doing nothing to organize. It's crazy. That's what happens when
[46:10.530 --> 46:17.710]  you show up and you're excited. The next type is loose. Now, loose is what DC 404 does.
[46:17.710 --> 46:22.250]  That means you only need one person to be consistent, at a minimum. You have to have
[46:22.250 --> 46:27.270]  one person who's consistent and dedicated to make things going. Decisions are by consensus.
[46:27.270 --> 46:32.150]  Remember, kids playing together, right? But there is one person who's kind of in charge.
[46:32.150 --> 46:36.610]  They don't tell people what to do, but they facilitate the conversation. They act as the
[46:36.610 --> 46:41.990]  moderator of the conversation. You'll end up eventually with a core group that just shows up
[46:41.990 --> 46:47.430]  regularly and helps. You won't be able to tell them no. They'll show up and help whether you
[46:47.430 --> 46:51.590]  want them to or not. They'll help you set up chairs. They'll help you take stuff down. They'll
[46:51.590 --> 46:57.050]  help you load your car. They'll do whatever you need. They'll beg you to help out and try to help
[46:57.050 --> 47:01.330]  out. And if you don't let them, they'll do it anyway. They'll just show up because they're
[47:01.330 --> 47:05.250]  excited. They'll show up with things like Lock Pit Villages or they'll show up with things like
[47:05.250 --> 47:10.010]  Capture the Flags or soldering stations. And we do a lot more than that at our meetings.
[47:10.030 --> 47:15.670]  Those are just some of the highlights. You may or may not have an official charter.
[47:16.430 --> 47:21.350]  It's not required. Now, if you're a DEF CON group, there is a charter that you have to
[47:21.970 --> 47:27.470]  abide by in order to be a DEF CON group. It's very minor. It's not very difficult to do.
[47:28.230 --> 47:31.410]  I'll give the link at the end of the presentation. I'll tell you what it is.
[47:31.450 --> 47:37.530]  And you can always go to... if you look at this URL here that's hanging in mid-space here,
[47:37.530 --> 47:41.010]  you can get a copy of my presentation, which has all the links at the end of it.
[47:43.950 --> 47:49.670]  Uh, there's no formal rules in the sense of how we do things. It's just a matter of kind
[47:49.670 --> 47:56.310]  of like an artistic. It's like, well, we get together, we have a presenter, we always give
[47:56.750 --> 48:02.150]  feedback to the presenter on how they can help improve their presentation if they need any help
[48:02.150 --> 48:05.950]  with that. We ask them if they want that kind of feedback and if they do, we give it to them.
[48:05.950 --> 48:09.230]  And we give them a great round of applause. We ask them questions and
[48:09.230 --> 48:14.850]  we make them feel wanted and thank them for their presentation.
[48:15.770 --> 48:22.890]  And we also make time open for people to just share whatever it is they're working on. Nothing
[48:22.890 --> 48:26.890]  formal, no presentation required. You want to get up and ask the question of the group,
[48:26.890 --> 48:31.590]  I'm stuck on something, or, hey, I want to know, is anybody here interested in this? Raise your
[48:31.590 --> 48:35.210]  hand. Okay, I'm going to come talk to you. And then they put down the mic and they go over there.
[48:35.210 --> 48:38.550]  We open it to the floor for people just to share whatever they're working on.
[48:38.550 --> 48:43.770]  For instance, when we get back after this DEF CON, our first meeting is the Saturday after
[48:43.770 --> 48:50.030]  we get back from DEF CON. We don't have a presenter. It's all about people debriefing,
[48:50.030 --> 48:53.510]  what did they see and hear while they were at DEF CON that really impressed them that they'd
[48:53.510 --> 49:00.350]  like to share with the group. And that's what the meeting is about. Okay. DC-404 is a prime
[49:00.350 --> 49:06.950]  example of a loose governance system. Whoa, I'm in the wrong window. Let me try that.
[49:06.950 --> 49:12.630]  Okay. Now, the next one's formal. Now, you probably, I don't, you may actually have been
[49:12.630 --> 49:20.810]  part of a formal organization, but most of us probably haven't. Okay. A formal organization
[49:20.810 --> 49:29.790]  runs like a business. They have elected officers. Regular meetings of the officers is separate from
[49:29.790 --> 49:35.730]  the group meetings. The meetings run, when they have meetings of the officers, they're run
[49:35.730 --> 49:40.570]  according to Robert's Rules of Order. They take minutes. They publish the minutes. They have
[49:40.570 --> 49:47.210]  published policies, procedures, and membership requirements. And some organizations will decide
[49:47.210 --> 49:54.670]  to be a 501-3C charitable organization. Now, whenever you do that, if you want to be a 501-3C,
[49:54.670 --> 50:00.630]  remember, this is a legal entity. This means there's legal requirements to go along with those.
[50:00.630 --> 50:05.910]  If you fail to live up to those requirements, there are legal repercussions like fines and
[50:05.910 --> 50:10.610]  possibly prison. So, if you're going to be a 501-3C, make sure you understand what you're
[50:10.610 --> 50:17.090]  getting into. There's no doing it like it's a hobby. If you're a loose organization like DC404,
[50:17.090 --> 50:23.270]  it's more like a hobby. If you're doing it formally, it's more like a business. You can't
[50:23.270 --> 50:28.750]  just decide as the CEO of a business, I'm not going to do that anymore and just not show up.
[50:28.750 --> 50:32.990]  That's not a cool thing to do. So, you have to realize that when you do that,
[50:32.990 --> 50:39.330]  it impacts the other members of the business. I can have legal repercussions if you're a 501-3C.
[50:41.210 --> 50:45.010]  Now, the next one, and this is the last one, is what's called hybrid.
[50:45.410 --> 50:50.490]  Hybrid is rather interesting. It's a combination of loose and formal.
[50:51.770 --> 50:57.410]  Now, this example, if somebody asked me if this would work, I'd tell them no.
[50:57.410 --> 51:04.670]  Unfortunately, I've seen it work far more than once in practice. Atlanta Jugglers Association
[51:04.670 --> 51:11.970]  is a prime example of this. They are a 501-3C3 charitable organization. They do have formal
[51:11.970 --> 51:19.650]  business meetings. There are loose minutes that are published as to the results of that meeting.
[51:19.890 --> 51:26.890]  At that meeting, they vote for the business officers. That's the president, vice president,
[51:26.890 --> 51:33.430]  secretary, treasurer, that sort of thing. You have to have members of the core group who are
[51:33.430 --> 51:39.750]  willing to fill those roles. And we jokingly do things like El Presidente for life and things
[51:39.750 --> 51:44.470]  like that. But they might be the president for 20-some years in a row simply because they're
[51:44.470 --> 51:49.710]  doing a good job. Nobody wants to have a coup or a takeover. Although, one year we did have a coup,
[51:49.710 --> 51:53.790]  but it was kind of a funny thing because the guy wanted to step down. So, we said,
[51:53.790 --> 51:57.930]  we're going to prop up Charles as president. He didn't want it, so Jay ended up doing it.
[51:57.930 --> 52:05.930]  But anyway, the meetings themselves, however, are completely anarchistic,
[52:06.450 --> 52:11.290]  just like MIT Juggling Pong. Jugglers are kind of that way because the idea is you want to just
[52:11.290 --> 52:15.950]  show up and juggle with each other. And the only way to do that is just cooperate. And we've been
[52:15.950 --> 52:22.010]  showing up and doing it for over 30 years at the same location. So, everybody just expects there's
[52:22.010 --> 52:26.430]  jugglers out on the lawn. If it's not raining, if not, they're indoors in the kitchen area. And if
[52:26.430 --> 52:32.830]  not there, they're up in their juggling space up by the theater. We meet at the... what do you call
[52:32.830 --> 52:47.960]  it? Not Civic Center. I said it at the first slide. What was that? I can't remember what it is.
[52:47.960 --> 52:55.800]  It's a civic center, like a civic center, local civic center that's there in Little Five Points,
[52:55.800 --> 53:00.660]  and you can rent space in it, but it's also open to the public for free events. And so,
[53:00.660 --> 53:04.600]  there's all kinds of stuff going on there. There's a lot of artistic groups there,
[53:04.600 --> 53:11.140]  and there's even a theater group that meets there. And Atlanta Government Association runs
[53:11.140 --> 53:16.220]  as a hybrid group. Even though they're a 501c3, they're a very loose organization.
[53:16.220 --> 53:23.420]  They run mostly by consensus. They do have a Presidente Dictator for Lifetime title,
[53:23.420 --> 53:27.360]  who's the official president. When somebody says, I need to speak to somebody official,
[53:27.360 --> 53:31.300]  that's the person who answers that. They have all the legal requirements. They meet all the
[53:31.300 --> 53:35.380]  legal requirements. They do all the bookkeeping that's required, all that sort of thing.
[53:35.380 --> 53:40.620]  But as far as the meetings go, they're just anarchistic, just like the MIT Jugglers Club
[53:40.620 --> 53:44.620]  goes. And it works. They're not the only organization that runs that way. That's
[53:44.620 --> 53:49.680]  what's so amazing about it. Now, let's talk about money. Now, this is true regardless of
[53:49.680 --> 53:54.820]  any kind of governance type. If you have money involved, you must be transparent.
[53:54.980 --> 54:00.200]  Open a bank account from the group. You have to have multiple people able to access the account,
[54:00.200 --> 54:04.200]  and you must have regular financial reports, and it must be made to the group.
[54:04.580 --> 54:11.400]  Money and or resources can be donated. You can have dues or pass the hat at meetings.
[54:11.400 --> 54:18.320]  Just remember that by charter, DC404, or not DC404, but DEFCON groups cannot have
[54:19.840 --> 54:24.300]  dues or fees as their meeting. Now, it doesn't mean that people can't just decide to donate
[54:24.300 --> 54:30.880]  money to your DEFCON group, okay? But if you do that, make sure that you do the formal accounting
[54:30.880 --> 54:37.080]  so that people see transparently where the money is and what's being done with it, okay?
[54:37.700 --> 54:41.440]  You can get a corporate or private sponsor for your group.
[54:41.820 --> 54:46.020]  That's quite doable. We have a sponsor, Pay for Our Space, as an example, okay?
[54:46.340 --> 54:51.620]  Swag. This is something I'll tell you. If you create a logo, do it as a work-for-hire,
[54:51.620 --> 54:56.080]  or have somebody assign this copyright to you, because if you don't, it can get a little sticky
[54:56.080 --> 55:04.940]  when you start selling swag. DC404 is kind of in that vein. We have a very famous local artist,
[55:04.940 --> 55:12.920]  or more like infamous local artist, who was the progenitor of our logo. It was based on something
[55:12.920 --> 55:19.620]  he did. And he gave us permission to use it as long as we only sold t-shirts and swag to DC404
[55:19.620 --> 55:25.000]  members. That means I can give you something that has our swag on it that I paid for, but I can't
[55:25.000 --> 55:29.380]  sell it to you. We can't sell it publicly. In order to do that, there's two ways you can do it. You
[55:29.380 --> 55:33.780]  can either have somebody in your group know somebody who makes that kind of swag, go get a
[55:33.780 --> 55:37.500]  pay up front with their own money, get a big order, and then try to sell it. We had a member
[55:37.500 --> 55:44.360]  do that recently with our challenge coins, which by the way are primo. They look so good. Who just
[55:44.360 --> 55:48.920]  bought them up front and is selling them to all the members of the group. The other is, we have
[55:49.080 --> 55:54.340]  a Zazzle account where we go in and create things like cups and magnets and t-shirts and things for
[55:54.340 --> 56:00.520]  conventions. And we make those available to DC404 members to buy, but those links are not open to
[56:00.520 --> 56:05.420]  the public. So you can have all kinds of swag and you can go either bake it yourself with the money
[56:05.420 --> 56:09.640]  up front, or use a service like Zazzle, and there's more than one, that's just an example one,
[56:09.640 --> 56:14.260]  to make it available to anybody. Just buy them whenever they want. You just put them up there.
[56:15.000 --> 56:18.800]  Okay, advertising. We're running out of time here, so let me get going.
[56:20.800 --> 56:26.440]  You need to feed relevant content, encourage discussions on the topics and issues that your
[56:26.440 --> 56:32.000]  site is about, or your group is about. Things that I would recommend, for instance, we have an email
[56:32.000 --> 56:38.440]  list, we have a Discord channel, we have an IRC server, although there's myself and one other guy
[56:38.440 --> 56:43.140]  in the IRC server, so it's kind of dying. There's a Twitter page, if you want somebody to have
[56:43.140 --> 56:48.760]  somebody who admins that and responds to things. You can also have Facebook, Slack, and really,
[56:48.760 --> 56:56.420]  this is the big one, is Meetup. Now, Meetup costs a lot of money, but every time I ask at a meeting,
[56:57.460 --> 57:02.740]  who here is here the first time? A bunch of hands will go up, like five to ten hands will go up.
[57:02.740 --> 57:06.580]  I'll say, how did you find out about us? And nine out of ten will say Meetup.
[57:07.760 --> 57:12.700]  So, Meetup is where people seem to be going to find things of interest. The problem is,
[57:12.700 --> 57:17.880]  Meetup is hideously expensive. It's like ridiculous money. Now, the way we got around
[57:17.880 --> 57:25.340]  that is one of our members started a Meetup channel for doing some security training he was
[57:25.340 --> 57:29.740]  and he moved. And he turned that over to us and said, here, you can have it until the thing runs
[57:29.740 --> 57:36.520]  out. Well, one of our members took over paying for it. And instead of just being for DC404,
[57:36.520 --> 57:42.680]  it's for all the groups in Atlanta that's on our Discord server have advertisement for their group
[57:42.680 --> 57:47.300]  thing. So, we were able to advertise that across the entire thing. All of us kind of chip in money
[57:47.300 --> 57:54.640]  to help the guy pay for it. So, I can't tell you how impactful Meetup has been. I hate to say that
[57:54.640 --> 58:00.080]  because the service is so darned expensive. But man, do they pull people in like nobody's business.
[58:00.700 --> 58:05.880]  Okay. That's pretty much a wrap-up. Sorry, I had to rush the last slide there.
[58:05.940 --> 58:14.680]  If you want to contact me, I'm xray at NoBoxLabs.com. That's N-O-B-O-X-L-A-B-S.com.
[58:14.680 --> 58:22.200]  That's actually at NoBoxLabs.com. You can also contact me at AtlantaLockSport.org or NetCost.org.
[58:22.200 --> 58:28.120]  You can contact me through those. And if you're looking for resources, the link to my presentations
[58:28.120 --> 58:36.100]  is right up there. And one of the things that's on my website is a thing on how to get started
[58:36.100 --> 58:40.880]  hacking. There's also a connection to all the Atlanta Information Security resources in the
[58:40.880 --> 58:46.460]  Atlanta area. There's links to Capture the Flag and Pentesting training tools, as well as a link
[58:46.460 --> 58:50.600]  directly to... somebody raised their hand, had a question.
[58:54.410 --> 58:59.010]  Oh, no. Okay. There's also a link to the DEF CON groups page. And that's
[59:01.530 --> 59:09.150]  https://forum.defcon.org slash social-groups, all lowercase. So that's forum.defcon.org
[59:09.150 --> 59:14.890]  slash social-groups. And that's where you can find out the information and sign up for a DEF CON group.
[59:14.890 --> 59:18.670]  Now, if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. I'll be happy to help you.
[59:18.670 --> 59:24.430]  And getting started, help work through finding a place to meet, whatever you need to help out,
[59:24.430 --> 59:28.770]  you're getting your group started. Even if it's not a DEF CON group, give me a call. I'll be glad
[59:28.770 --> 59:31.970]  to help you out. Or if you're interested in learning how to do Capture the Flag or starting a
[59:31.970 --> 59:37.550]  lock group, Big Village, or whatever, in your group, give me a call. I'll be happy to help.
[59:37.550 --> 59:50.680]  Any questions? Wow, I must have been a really good speaker. Okay. So, okay, let me...