1 00:00:03,020 --> 00:00:04,710 So, hi, I'm Squiddy. 2 00:00:04,710 --> 00:00:06,530 I'm based in the Midwest of the U.S. 3 00:00:06,530 --> 00:00:09,750 and my talk is about security concerns of the medical laboratory. 4 00:00:10,310 --> 00:00:11,830 Next slide please. 5 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:16,220 So, who am I? 6 00:00:16,220 --> 00:00:22,260 I'm a health informatics graduate student at IU, focusing on health information security and medical device security. 7 00:00:22,260 --> 00:00:31,500 I'm also a medical laboratory scientist with some phlebotomy experience thrown in as well, but I managed to get off the bench and I'm currently working in laboratory informatics. 8 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:42,640 This talk is going to be about things that I noticed during my first year in the medical laboratory that concern me just a little bit and things that I would personally like to see changed or see improvements on. 9 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:50,520 I'm going to focus a bit more on bringing awareness to the field itself and on some physical security concerns more than anything. 10 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,920 It's going to be part of a two-part talk. 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:01:00,500 I hope to give the second part one of these days, but I'll focus more on data transmission between lab analyzers and the EHR system. 12 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:02,800 Next slide please. 13 00:01:04,620 --> 00:01:07,780 So first, what is a medical laboratory scientist? 14 00:01:07,780 --> 00:01:14,160 A medical laboratory scientist, in short, performs diagnostic testing on patient samples in the medical lab. 15 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:24,000 We ensure specimen quality, interpret test results, log test data, controls, perform statistical analysis to verify accuracy and repeatability of testing. 16 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:33,880 We also work with laboratory instrumentation or analyzers to perform calibration, maintenance, and validation and the troubleshoot instrumentation. 17 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,180 We might help providers select an appropriate test to run. 18 00:01:37,180 --> 00:01:50,920 We have some more advanced education and training in areas like chemistry and biology, including microbiology, than some other healthcare workers like nurses, and we possess more of a scope of knowledge than someone who's more specialized in one area, 19 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:52,940 like a microbiologist would. 20 00:01:52,940 --> 00:01:58,100 So some of us are specialized in areas like micro or blood bank with our core knowledge. 21 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:05,300 So when your sample is collected, let's say you go and get your blood drawn, the nurse or the phlebotomist will send your sample to us. 22 00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:07,960 And from there, we perform testing on your sample. 23 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:13,680 Sometimes this is manual testing by hand, and sometimes that testing involves laboratory instrumentation. 24 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,740 Often it's a hybrid of both. 25 00:02:15,740 --> 00:02:23,260 These days, the lab is mostly automated, but there are still some smaller clinical labs that don't utilize a lot of instrumentation, depending on their need. 26 00:02:23,740 --> 00:02:27,780 We're also responsible for issuing blood products for transfusions. 27 00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:37,020 According to the CDC, an estimated 70% of medical decisions are based on laboratory test results, and 14 billion laboratory tests are ordered annually. 28 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:39,300 Next slide, please. 29 00:02:39,940 --> 00:02:42,180 So how are we regulated? 30 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:48,580 Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services regulates all laboratory testing except for research performed on humans in the U.S. 31 00:02:48,580 --> 00:03:01,080 through CLIA, or the Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments, which regulate laboratory testing and require clinical laboratories to be certified by the CMS before they can accept human samples for diagnostic testing. 32 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:11,160 The objective of CLIA is to ensure quality laboratory testing, and three federal agencies are responsible for CLIA—the FDA, the CMS, and the CDC. 33 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:25,820 Each agency has a unique role in assuring laboratory quality testing, and I'll provide a link at the end with citations for a bit more information so that you can go and read a little bit more about how we're regulated, because it's very important information, 34 00:03:25,820 --> 00:03:29,220 but I think it's a little bit too lengthy for a 20-minute talk. 35 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,840 Next slide, please. 36 00:03:31,620 --> 00:03:42,180 So getting into the clinical laboratory and what kind of environment it is, there are multiple departments in a clinical laboratory, and these departments vary by the size of the clinical lab and complexity of testing. 37 00:03:42,180 --> 00:03:46,500 For example, a laboratory at a major hospital will be made up of the following departments. 38 00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:52,780 We have chemistry, where we perform thyroid and hormone-level tests—things like potassium levels, lipid panels. 39 00:03:53,740 --> 00:03:59,740 Immunology, for the study of immune products, like antibodies produced by the body in response to foreign material. 40 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,600 Hematology and COAG, where your blood count is done and your blood cell morphology is examined. 41 00:04:05,340 --> 00:04:08,680 Microbiology, where we do some really cool stuff, like culture samples for E. 42 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,440 coli and Salmonella—things like Pseudomonas and C. 43 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:12,060 diff. 44 00:04:12,460 --> 00:04:16,300 Blood Bank, where we type your blood and issue blood products for transfusion. 45 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:22,520 There's also going to be a processing and receiving department for samples coming into the lab. 46 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:24,680 Next slide, please. 47 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,900 The lab is occupied by various medical professionals. 48 00:04:28,900 --> 00:04:37,440 First and foremost, we have medical or clinical laboratory scientists, also known as medical laboratory technologists, who perform complex laboratory testing. 49 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:49,200 We'll perform exacting tests, like molecular and genetic testing, and we also deal with samples that present unusual diagnosis challenges and select appropriate testing agents and methodologies for them. 50 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:55,640 Becoming an MLS requires a four-year Bachelor of Science degree, part of which will be a clinical rotation in a hospital laboratory. 51 00:04:56,140 --> 00:05:04,380 For laboratory technicians, they're also supposed to perform routine testing in order to assist medical lab scientists and technologists perform their duties. 52 00:05:04,540 --> 00:05:09,340 Theirs is typically a less comprehensive two-year program, and there are certain tests they can't perform. 53 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:16,980 But the truth of the matter is that sometimes they end up performing a lot of the same testing as we do, especially since there is a shortage of laboratory scientists. 54 00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:30,780 The other players in a lab are lab assistants, who can assist us in receiving samples and bringing them to appropriate departments, our phlebotomists, who perform blood draws for testing, senior techs and heads of departments, and the laboratory director. 55 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:32,540 Next slide, please. 56 00:05:33,180 --> 00:05:40,540 So the key point here is that there are a lot of different workers in a lab working all at once and handling a large amount of patient data. 57 00:05:40,540 --> 00:05:45,200 Laboratory workers can also come and go, leave one lab and work in a different lab. 58 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,620 But because there is a shortage at the moment, it's been difficult to keep labs appropriately staffed. 59 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:57,180 Since there is such a shortage, employers are willing to hire techs who may be a little less qualified, still need a little bit more training. 60 00:05:57,260 --> 00:06:06,200 Because of the need for lab techs who can handle patient testing, new techs may have their training cut short a bit and may be thrown on the bench to handle testing a little earlier than usual. 61 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,500 And so lack the training that some other techs would have received. 62 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:21,520 So if we're looking at the appropriate handling of patient data, then right away, there may be techs who lack that training or who didn't receive a full training schedule who are handling patient information, and it can lead to mistakes being made. 63 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:30,720 For example, a lot of the time, cell phone use, especially for things like taking pictures, is only permitted under very specific circumstances in the lab or not at all. 64 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:36,180 I've worked at places where some use is allowed, specific use is allowed, or phone usage is not permitted at all. 65 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:43,040 And not every tech coming in is going to know that or know that usage is limited to prevent an accidental breach of patient data. 66 00:06:43,420 --> 00:06:49,500 A busy lab and a shortage of staff means that techs have to be able to move between departments in a rapid fashion. 67 00:06:49,500 --> 00:07:02,500 We may put a sample down that we're working on and move to another department to complete a test, then come back, pick up that sample and continue where we left off, even when it's best practice to sit down and finish a test to completion before moving on. 68 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:04,660 Sometimes it's just not possible. 69 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:10,600 Sometimes techs working third shift, there may only be two or three techs working all of the departments at once. 70 00:07:11,980 --> 00:07:18,720 When we perform testing, we often resolve this testing in our laboratory information systems, such as Cerner, SoftLab, or MetaTek. 71 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:29,060 And to do this, we have to log into a computer to access the software, which brings us to the next part of the talk, which is technology that resides in our lab, instrumentation, and our LIS system. 72 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:30,360 Next slide, please. 73 00:07:31,140 --> 00:07:34,520 There are a multitude of laboratory analyzers for use today. 74 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:44,900 For example, if you've checked out the medical device lab at the Biohacking Village, you'll see the ID Now, which is this middle picture on the bottom here, and that's used for point-of-care COVID testing. 75 00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:49,820 We have chemistry analyzers like the Vitros that run the thyroid tests and hormone panels. 76 00:07:49,820 --> 00:07:58,800 We have urinalysis analyzers like the Clinitech, analyzers for blood cultures, analyzers in BloodBank like the OrthoVision to perform our type and screens. 77 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,120 All of these analyzers are going to interface a little differently. 78 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,620 They'll be running on different operating systems and handle data differently. 79 00:08:05,780 --> 00:08:08,580 Each instrument may be from a different vendor. 80 00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:11,500 There may be older analyzers mixed in with brand new ones. 81 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:22,400 For example, in my clinical rotation in 2021, we had a Stago coag analyzer running on DOS, and across the room, a brand new Vitros for chemistry, and this was at a major hospital. 82 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,340 Next slide, please. 83 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:34,240 These instruments send data to the Laboratory Information System, like Cerner, and sometimes techs may have to enter or verify test data there. 84 00:08:34,460 --> 00:08:49,760 Laboratory Information System, or LIS, is used interchangeably with Laboratory Information Management System, or LMS, but LIS is more patient-based, whereas Laboratory Management System is typically more of a sample-based process. 85 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,060 Next slide, please. 86 00:08:52,060 --> 00:09:03,180 When the information goes out of the LIS, it will go to a middleware like Cloverleaf to streamline the exchange of patient data between the LIS and the EHR patient record system, like Epic. 87 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:17,520 There may be a middleware used between the instrument itself and the LIS, and middleware is often one step used to establish a web-based interface which can support all the standards like ASTM, HL7, and ICOM data transfer from an analyzer. 88 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,680 Each analyzer may use a different data transmission standard. 89 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:24,220 A lot of analyzers still communicate using ASTM. 90 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,380 Next slide, please. 91 00:09:26,380 --> 00:09:34,140 When examining security concerns or vulnerabilities in the medical laboratory, we have to worry about three things, or three areas. 92 00:09:34,140 --> 00:09:45,620 Physical access to the laboratory computers or instrumentation, the variation in instrumentation and how they each handle patient data, especially in terms of storing and transferring that data. 93 00:09:45,940 --> 00:09:55,700 Some older analyzers are built to store patient data on sloppy disks or tapes still, though thankfully this is not typically done, even when those analyzers are still used today. 94 00:09:56,420 --> 00:09:57,680 Simple human error. 95 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:00,200 People may leave their computer terminal logged in. 96 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,460 They may leave Epic open, which is used to view patient records. 97 00:10:03,460 --> 00:10:08,500 They may stay logged into the LIS on one computer and move to the next computer and log in there. 98 00:10:08,740 --> 00:10:12,140 They may take pictures and forget to obscure patient data. 99 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,560 Next slide, please. 100 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:21,460 In my almost a year and a half of walking around the clinical laboratory at different facilities, I noticed a whole lot. 101 00:10:21,460 --> 00:10:37,360 For example, a badge may be required to access a lab, but I've also noticed that if you are at least dressed like a healthcare worker and you knock at that lab door, someone's bound to let you in, since sometimes nurses and other workers will come down to the lab either to grab blood products or deliver samples. 102 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,240 Sometimes we've had to move samples from one lab to another. 103 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:54,680 And I'm not going to say where this was at, but we've had people call in their relatives or non-healthcare workers to deliver samples that have patient information between the two laboratories. 104 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:08,120 A password may be required to access computers and used to access patient data, but the same password is often used between computers, network, the LIS, and the patient record system. 105 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:17,360 While a password change is usually required at least once every three months from what I've seen, there isn't always a restriction in place to prevent users from reusing an old password. 106 00:11:17,660 --> 00:11:31,220 There is a constant flow of text in and out of the lab, rotating between departments, often forgetting to log out of their computer or leaving the patient record system logged in, which means someone else could gain access to their session and grab data. 107 00:11:31,220 --> 00:11:41,280 There is physical access to computers with open USB ports and the ability to plug in devices like keyboards and mice that you bring from home without the device being screened first. 108 00:11:41,540 --> 00:11:47,180 There is also no camera surveillance in the lab, as surveillance can itself result in a HIPAA violation. 109 00:11:47,220 --> 00:11:55,100 But this also means should patient data be accessed at a computer under one login, there isn't always a way to check who was sitting in that chair. 110 00:11:55,100 --> 00:12:02,520 Some people will clock out for lunch and go to the break room and then go back in the lab periodically to check a sample running on an analyzer. 111 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,680 So the clock officially shows them on break, but they may in fact be in the lab handling samples. 112 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,160 There may not always be an electronic trail of that. 113 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,720 Next slide, please. 114 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:22,260 To me, right now with the current level of understanding, the biggest concern is, of course, an always human error. 115 00:12:22,260 --> 00:12:30,180 It's people leaving their session logged in, writing down passwords on sticky notes or using simple ones, sharing passwords. 116 00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:34,200 It's people forgetting to lock their machine despite being informed to do so. 117 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:39,880 People using each other's badges to gain access to an analyzer and run a sample. 118 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,780 Outside of training sometimes as well. 119 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,960 A lot of techs don't understand the severity of these actions. 120 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:56,100 And I think one way we can fix this is to hold more informational sessions in the lab and focus not only on the fact that it's important to log out or lock your session. 121 00:12:56,100 --> 00:13:02,580 But what could also happen if they don't and what the consequences could be for a patient and for the tech who left their session open. 122 00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:07,420 Many don't seem to understand the level of impact this can have on a patient's life. 123 00:13:07,420 --> 00:13:16,280 Even if a tech slips up or acts maliciously with patient data and is caught and terminated, that won't prevent that data from circulating once it's leaked. 124 00:13:17,780 --> 00:13:19,480 Next slide, please. 125 00:13:19,740 --> 00:13:20,800 So why should you care? 126 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,080 Because it's your data. 127 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:28,820 That's your SSN, that's your date of birth, your address, your test results saying you're positive or negative for something. 128 00:13:28,820 --> 00:13:34,100 Sometimes that information could be a test result for HIV, a positive cancer diagnosis. 129 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:38,000 It's sensitive information that can have severe consequences if leaked. 130 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,860 That's all your medical history, sometimes spanning throughout your entire life. 131 00:13:41,860 --> 00:13:46,120 And it's all the personal data that can be held about you in your medical record. 132 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,520 Next slide, please. 133 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,880 So you could help us too. 134 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,980 We need more security-minded people. 135 00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:55,640 We need more lab techs with a security brain. 136 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,980 We need more security warriors willing to protect patient data. 137 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:05,180 And most importantly, we need more people who care enough and who possess a background to understand healthcare workflow. 138 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,820 How much restriction can we place in the lab without slowing down patient testing? 139 00:14:09,820 --> 00:14:16,040 How much security precautions can we put in place without increasing the time that a sample is run? 140 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,980 And therefore, increasing the time for a patient to receive proper care. 141 00:14:20,060 --> 00:14:26,380 So if you work in cybersecurity at a facility with a medical laboratory, please get to know your lab department. 142 00:14:26,380 --> 00:14:28,660 We really want your data to be safe too. 143 00:14:29,940 --> 00:14:32,720 I guess I've really whizzed past this talk. 144 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,620 When I rehearsed it before, I got up to about 17 minutes. 145 00:14:37,620 --> 00:14:39,780 We're currently at about 14. 146 00:14:39,780 --> 00:14:41,940 I guess that leaves some time for questions. 147 00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:43,720 But next slide, please. 148 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,880 I have some citations that you can go and check out. 149 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,440 And if you'd like a copy of the slide deck, you can DM me or send me a message. 150 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,400 Next slide. 151 00:14:55,860 --> 00:14:57,360 Thanks for listening. 152 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:05,160 This talk was mostly to bring awareness to the medical laboratory field, and that there are those of us who are concerned about how your data is handled. 153 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,760 We really want to make things more secure for you. 154 00:15:07,820 --> 00:15:14,040 I hope this will maybe help to get people thinking about patient data in the laboratory, and kickstart some serious change. 155 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:20,600 If you're here at DEFCON, come find me to get a little homemade badge of my squid character, or DM me on Twitter. 156 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,540 I really only use the account listed here during cons. 157 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:25,960 Thanks, you guys. 158 00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:39,020 If there are any questions, I'll do my best to answer. 159 00:15:41,420 --> 00:15:50,660 Do you think that this kind of lack of control of the data is systemic to the whole industry, or do you think it's only problem spots? 160 00:15:51,820 --> 00:15:54,900 I think it would be whole industry. 161 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,200 I think, yes, I think this kind of thing is really prevalent throughout healthcare. 162 00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:03,880 Do you think that stronger policies... 163 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:15,840 I know HIPAA is in place, but what stronger internal policies do you think actually help, or do you think you would still run into the same kind of issues of people just kind of ignoring them or just getting around them? 164 00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:24,940 We do have some stronger policies in place in a lot of the hospitals I've been in, but I don't think they do as much as people want them to. 165 00:16:24,940 --> 00:16:29,780 I think we would still run into the same problem of people just not understanding the impact. 166 00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:42,820 I feel like techs coming into the lab, people going into healthcare, they need more training, they need to know how this can impact patients, and policies aren't exactly going to explain all of that to them. 167 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:51,960 They may put things in place, make things a little bit harder to access, but where there's a will, there's a way, and people always find a way to circumvent protocols that are put in place. 168 00:16:57,340 --> 00:17:09,320 So I've heard the horror stories of medical or laboratory equipment running awfully, awfully outdated software that's vulnerable in a hundred different ways. 169 00:17:10,220 --> 00:17:22,060 Do you say that internal sort of lack of awareness or internal threats pose a bigger risk than external threats? 170 00:17:24,060 --> 00:17:28,380 That's a difficult one to answer, but I'm going to say yeah, I think so. 171 00:17:28,380 --> 00:17:40,760 I think we're more likely to see something due to somebody slipping up than we are to an external attack, if that answers your question. 172 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:56,640 What happens when something like internal to a hospital, like a medical record number is released or something like that? 173 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:05,720 What would happen is first there'd be an investigation by compliance. 174 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,380 We would try and find out the source of the leak. 175 00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:14,680 We would alert the patient immediately that this information has been leaked. 176 00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:20,060 But from there, I don't have that compliance background to let you know fully what the hospital would do. 177 00:18:20,060 --> 00:18:21,260 Okay. 178 00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:34,360 Also, what do you think that is limiting the big groups that run the hospitals and clinics and all that stuff? 179 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:39,060 What do you think is keeping them from upgrading the systems and stuff? 180 00:18:39,060 --> 00:18:44,920 Because I've heard that some still run on Windows XP, I think, Windows Vista. 181 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,660 Some of it just has to do with funding. 182 00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:55,060 Some of it just has to do with the funding that the medical laboratory needs to bring in these analyzers. 183 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:04,360 And I'm not sure if you're asking the people who run these organizations if they really understand the need that we have for updated instrumentation. 184 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,420 So I think that's part of it. 185 00:19:06,620 --> 00:19:11,760 And I think part of it is also that the lab gets very used to using one analyzer. 186 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,720 And some people are very hesitant to change. 187 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,580 I think that's another one. 188 00:19:18,660 --> 00:19:19,840 Okay. 189 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:25,270 Thank you. 190 00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:38,930 What kind of positions would it be for someone that wants to get into security of hospitals? 191 00:19:40,810 --> 00:19:48,190 We have a security team and we have an IT apps team that you could join. 192 00:19:48,190 --> 00:19:50,870 You wouldn't exactly need a healthcare background. 193 00:19:50,890 --> 00:20:01,070 But I would say we would need more techs, more people in health informatics, for one, that could join the laboratory and create change from within the laboratory. 194 00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:07,710 Because we have security teams, but a lot of the problem is that they don't understand the healthcare workflow enough. 195 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:11,600 Okay. 196 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:18,940 So what you're saying is that you're looking for people that are more skilled in health informatics, right? 197 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,180 Yeah, sure. 198 00:20:20,180 --> 00:20:22,820 Health informatics, laboratory information systems. 199 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,760 People that kind of have a mix of both IT and healthcare. 200 00:20:27,820 --> 00:20:28,480 Okay. 201 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:29,360 Thank you. 202 00:20:29,460 --> 00:20:31,040 No problem. 203 00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:51,610 Do you think some of the issues might be that the people working there don't actually understand the impact of violating some of the security policies that to them it seems inconsequential, not realizing the risk it's putting them in and the system in? 204 00:20:52,030 --> 00:20:53,010 Absolutely. 205 00:20:53,010 --> 00:20:55,490 I think that's absolutely true. 206 00:20:56,150 --> 00:21:00,670 A lot of people, they don't really think about it on a day-to-day basis either. 207 00:21:00,950 --> 00:21:07,870 It's very much, you know, we need to do what we need to do to be able to get this sample out the door and to get this sample completed. 208 00:21:07,870 --> 00:21:17,710 And if that means overriding something that's telling you, hey, stop, don't press a button, or, hey, do you want to stay logged in for this extended amount of time and they just breeze past it? 209 00:21:18,570 --> 00:21:23,770 A lot of people don't really think about those things or think about how it could impact them. 210 00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:42,570 Some of them, yeah, there is going to be, especially right now with the shortage of techs, training might be limited. 211 00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:58,070 But even for those that have had years and years of training, people who have been in the lab for 40-odd years, they still might not understand exactly how that breach can impact a patient, especially now with newer systems and newer technologies in place. 212 00:21:58,070 --> 00:22:11,650 They might not understand all of the layers that come into play in terms of patient data these days, because when they started out in the lab, they didn't have all of this information that they were working with. 213 00:22:11,650 --> 00:22:13,410 You know, mouth pipetting was still a thing. 214 00:22:13,410 --> 00:22:15,710 It was still very much a manual process. 215 00:22:17,470 --> 00:22:23,390 I think definitely more training, consistent education on it would be good. 216 00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:26,970 Okay. 217 00:22:28,670 --> 00:22:39,690 What are your thoughts on when the whole WannaCrypt ransomware attack happened that affected hospitals and clinics? 218 00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:41,350 What were your thoughts on that? 219 00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:43,170 Did that ever happen in your place? 220 00:22:43,650 --> 00:22:46,890 It didn't happen anywhere that I worked. 221 00:22:48,210 --> 00:22:53,910 I guess my thoughts on it was that it was terrible and a lot of people didn't know how to handle it at all. 222 00:22:53,910 --> 00:22:56,630 A lot of hospitals weren't sure how to deal with that threat. 223 00:22:56,630 --> 00:23:01,590 And that's just from what I've heard, because that was from before I entered the workforce. 224 00:23:02,350 --> 00:23:03,230 Okay. 225 00:23:06,580 --> 00:23:07,620 Thank you. 226 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,500 No problem. 227 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:26,200 Thanks. 228 00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:34,100 If there are any more questions, you can definitely shoot me a DM or you can come find me, send me an email. 229 00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:38,360 I'd be happy to talk with you more, especially about this topic. 230 00:23:55,270 --> 00:23:57,190 I didn't realize I was muted. 231 00:23:58,010 --> 00:23:59,990 Thank you, Squidy, for an excellent talk. 232 00:23:59,990 --> 00:24:05,150 Your talk in last DEF CON, which was 2020, was excellent as well. 233 00:24:05,930 --> 00:24:09,230 And if you're going to be around in here, people can talk to you in here too. 234 00:24:09,230 --> 00:24:15,150 I know you're at DEF CON, so you may not actually be in AllSpace VR for much longer. 235 00:24:15,150 --> 00:24:16,090 Is that correct? 236 00:24:16,750 --> 00:24:18,310 Yeah, that's correct. 237 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:22,690 But I'll try and hang out for a little while longer if people want to come find me in AllSpace. 238 00:24:23,270 --> 00:24:24,270 Okay. 239 00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:34,550 And also just a reminder that we don't have any presentations scheduled for tomorrow, but the spaces will be open for people to hang out and talk and network. 240 00:24:35,050 --> 00:24:39,590 So our next presenter won't be here for roughly another 30 minutes. 241 00:24:40,050 --> 00:24:48,850 So now's a good time to take a bio break, wander around, look for some of the Easter eggs, talk to some of the speakers, and we'll see you back here in about 30 minutes.